TRAP: The Real Adviser Podcast

36 - Three Wins, Two Lessons, One Goal

• Alan Smith; Andy Hart; Carl Widger; Nick Lincoln • Episode 36

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Welcome to The Real advisor podcast, t r a p twerp please follow us and join in the conversation on Twitter at advisor podcast where you can suggest ideas and themes you'd like the track team to discuss. Also remember to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave a six out of five star review on iTunes. Doing all this really really helps us which means we can do more to help you. Now let's head over to the studio for the latest pilot trap.

Nick Lincoln:

Yes, indeed, dear TRAPPIST, welcome back to what many people are calling episode 36 of the real advisor podcast te R A P trap. My name is Luke Lincoln and joining me in 2024. In the digital studio boom, are the three other Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Call the voice which are and the entre heart, and storyteller Smith. Now gentlemen, we have a show packed full of app salutely nothing so let's start unpacking it straightaway with some more high energy reviews. Read out by my my good friend, Mr. Andrew Hart,

Andy Hart:

a couple of long ones that I'm somewhat nursing a bit of a cold, so bear with me. First one is from E and N double O seven, six out of five, five stars. I'm one of the non ifas listening to this fantastic ish, enlightened trap cast. Being from the other side of the financial world on the high frequency trading side. It's refreshing to see behavioral financial planning being being applied for the greater good. I see it time after time, more complex products been introduced to people who don't really understand them, but feel they've earned the right to be in the exclusive club of being bamboozled by numbers and new ideas. It amazes me how these people have no idea about personal finance and tax planning great and making money but very hard for them to keep it keep up the good fight. I'm enjoying it immensely. Next review is entitled inspirational, enlightening and jovial five stars this is from Simon underscore J planner, a fantastic podcast whether you are at the start of your career in financial planning or decades in. I've been a bit advising for five years, 15 years in the industry and I've been following Andy since I heard him on the next gen podcast some time ago. Through following Andy I have since discovered Nick and Alan Yeah, so common route. And I'm pleased to have added Carl, to to the listening. It's refreshing to get views from outside of my own firm network. Andy Nick Annalen. Kawa clearly committed to providing full fat financial planning their different styles and approaches mean that they don't always agree and have a healthy and respectful debate. The upshot being the podcast isn't an echo chamber. The gents obviously get along very well. And this comes across Nick sound effects are a fun addition to there are things I regularly say and do with clients that have come from this podcast. Keep up the good work chaps, both the pod and the good you do for your clients. Simon Jones, back to you, Nick.

Nick Lincoln:

Fantastic, fantastic. Thank you for those two reviews. Lovely, do keep them coming in. By your whether it be via iTunes, or just anywhere you can do it. Great stuff. Okay, so topical tip bits, let's give this a timestamp. It's obviously the start of the year. We're all full of energy and hope we've wiped the slate clean, and 2023. And in 2023, this is a forum that I run this Google group thing. I put a call out on LinkedIn and on Twitter on the 31st of December to say can we get to about 400 Members, we are at 390. And that's an influx. So we're now at 436 members of the IFA forum. And if you want to join it, the links in the so called show notes, it's a very good resource. It might drive you crazy if you don't like emails, because 400 people, it's a lot of back and forth. But you can set up a filter in your email client of choice to maybe post the emails you get and look at it maybe once or twice, twice a day, but I use it a lot. If you're a one member and especially oh you know small life a practice and you haven't got the technical desk that you would have with a bigger firm. The iPhone was a very good resource. That's enough self promotion from me. Now watch. You're not a man who likes confrontation. You You know you keep your head down. You don't aggravate most of Ireland most of the time. Tell me why you picked a fight with the fire movement, my friend.

Carl Widger:

Happy New Year, Nicholas. So we covered the fire movement a little time back there. It's only a probably a couple of months ago and I retweeted something in the last day or two from Justin Welch wel, sh and his the first line is I'm convinced the fire movement is a gimmick and I am too. And I've reflected. And I probably wasn't as vociferous about this when we covered it. But I suppose, as you approach the end of the year, and you reflect back on what's happened, and then you're planning for the year ahead, one thing that I have struggled with massively, all of my career is hitting the target, and what's next and what's next. And understanding, I suppose, when you get to that target, that it's not all it was cracked up to be, and that you got to really enjoy the journey. And what's the fire movement, the fire movement is right, do all the penny pension, and then when I have enough, I will be happy. You know, and it's all about, you know, giving up and, you know, not allowing yourself to, you know, spend money basically, on experiences are things and I just thought, you know, what, I think the fire movement is a lot of BS, I really do. And I don't think anybody should go through life, constantly depriving yourself, especially have experiences. And yeah, I could go on, I won't enjoy life enjoy the journey, folks, because that's all we have.

Alan Smith:

That's that was a really interesting thread. And then loads of comments on Twitter was in the Justin Welsh, remember that doesn't know it doesn't follow him should follow him, his content is extraordinary. I've done his LinkedIn course. So he's not from financial services at all. He's just someone who's a successful solopreneur, creating his own financial independence. And he just reflected on it and thought, This is nonsense. Because of the amount of sacrifice now I know Andy's going to jump in in a minute. And say, which is true, there are degrees or degrees of it. And some people absolutely seem to deny themselves live on, you know, boiled rice and Top Ramen and sort of live in penury for 3020 30 years in order that they can, you know, walk away from a job that they hate. But I think they're fundamentally what we do is a version of it, which is what we want to get as the first FYI, the financial independence bit. The retiring early is just a, you know, it's a term and I think, I think there's just such a wide range of it, but it seems to have gathered a lot of momentum because of the more famous ones like Mister Money Mustache, who kind of found that the the whole thing certainly seems to be quite extreme in his lifestyle, his behavior and is sort of choices that he's made over the years, the ones that he's promoted. So I'm with you call on it. I agree. What do you think, Andy?

Nick Lincoln:

Yeah, and he's on the stage. And it's thanks to him when he would do it this time. So yeah, it's a balancing act, isn't it? We, we obviously want clients to be saving for their future selves, so they don't run out of money later on in life. But there's a balancing act, man, here we were we, you know, we, we want our clients also to have a full life and an active life and we want them to have the same kind of quality of life in retirement that they have while they're earning money. So I don't know. I mean, the thing that piqued me was this Mister Money Mustache, chose to have one child, because that's what he thought he could afford. If he had more than that it would ruin his retire early plans. I'm thinking man, you've you've got your act. To me. That's the value system that's upside down. Anyway,

Andy Hart:

let's not say one point on it, Nick. As a sort of movement as a force. Their conclusion is to invest in 100% global equities, which I've never seen that outcome from anything else. So that's just one enormous great point from it. Yeah, I mean, it depends how you use these principles and balance it off. It's a bit of a straw man argument to just go after the extremes. And it's a little bit insulting to think that these people that are on the fire journey do not enjoy the now and spend money on experiences. So it's a balancing act. It's trade offs, it's like everything in life but I think the principles are sound you know, control your expenses, know what you're spending invest in global equities, work out what your number is, and then live your life around it. Obviously taken an extreme of I'm only having one child because I'm doing the fire movement obviously. Yeah, that's That's not cool. But then there are other people that do fat fire they have lots of you know, incredible amounts of income coming in, but they just control their expenses so it's like everything here there's good points and bad points with it, but as a movement to promote 100% global equities we don't see that anywhere so that's that can only be commended.

Carl Widger:

Did you did you just say fat fire

Andy Hart:

Yeah, fire and but fat

Alan Smith:

fire is basically what we do. branded a name on it. It's just it's just good quality financial planning

Andy Hart:

terminology within the within within the space Yeah, but not making up something myself. Yeah, but

Carl Widger:

but only what you You've just described is exactly what Alan said it's real financial planning, but it real financial.

Andy Hart:

So so you're both suppose so the principles of fire are the same as what we preach. Yeah, there's obviously extremes to all of them. But the principles are sound, control your expenses, invest your global equities, plan what your number is, and then retired to something that you like more, you know, it's not retired to nothing again, which is something that that people talk about. It's not retire to a beach at 33, and do nothing for the rest of your life and be unproductive. But again, there probably is one person that did that. That's not all a fire.

Carl Widger:

Well, if I could just count her on that financial independence retire early, right. So for me, any of the reading I've done on the fire movement is exactly that. It's about like, I'm gonna retire to a beach and to just do nothing. So that's not what real financial planning is about. It's about trying to, I suppose get into the psyche of the client to see, well, what does pipe pipe does the third act as they describe it? What does that look like? What do you want to do? And I don't know, look, I think it'd be a pretty miserable existence to sit in a beach, just because you've been engaged for 20 or 25 years, it

Andy Hart:

doesn't anyway, doesn't happen, they might have a couple of weeks, but that the people I've come across in real life, that doing foreign practicing, that are often giving up work, once they hit their number two, do something that they're more way more passionate about. So they're adding more good to the world, once they've, you know, tick, the finance of the number game. This is real people I've worked with.

Carl Widger:

And this is and the reason you've come across them is because you're working with them to do real financial planning. And that's massively different than the fire movement. And I get it that there are extremes. But, you know, putting off the this is my whole premise here is this is a journey that we're all on. And you've got to try and enjoy the journey because it's not 100% it's not a rehearsal and always thinking I will be happy when it does not work. It does not.

Nick Lincoln:

That's correct. That's correct. Okay, okay. That was very good. And that's what I do. We had enough tension there. But we're still in love with each other liking this liking this very much. Okay, the next topical tip, right? Well, this is we could we could there must be a I think there's almost an endless supply are these these tidbits that the so called experts throw out but I just saw something from Morgan Stanley, that Morgan Stanley put out on the 19th of December 2022. Basically, their predictions for the s&p for last year for 2023. I'll read out the opening paragraph and then we'll we can move on. But there's a link to this in the so called show notes. And if an advisor, I would suggest this is the kind of content you want to be putting on your clients noses and say, This is what I protect you from. So it starts US equities are set for their worst year since the global financial crisis. And according to Morgan Stanley strategist, Michael Wilson, Your mother must be proud Michael, corporate profits are about to meet the same fate. Well, and in the same article, apparently the the s&p was due to go down to as low as 3000. Well, we know what happened in 2023. Don't worry, dear Trappists. Another example of the dangers of the dying legacy media, and its pernicious effect on our clients and the culture it creates Mr. Hart,

Andy Hart:

this is very much for you, isn't it? Nick, everyone else is looking at the predictions for the following a year you go back to the previous year just prove our wrongly I which I like which is which is very interesting. That forever on you, you're gonna be doing that forever.

Nick Lincoln:

Once a decade, these people get it right, don't they? And then and then they just crow on about it. It's like no,

Andy Hart:

hold on. This is like a, like an amber system. Like last year, it was definitely read like this, it might be AMA, they might actually hit green one at one point.

Alan Smith:

But I think that's that's that's the point. And I'll sort of just shoehorn my travel tip in here. Now, it's an appropriate juncture. Because I do the same as the last couple of years. I've become a bit more Nick like, and I've, when I see all these predictions, I just save I save them a thing, I'll just check. I've only done a couple of years and every time they are so wildly wrong. So I posted something on LinkedIn just before. Before just for the year, on the last day of the year, I think it was the 31st or the last trading day, the year whatever that was 29th or something of December. And it was not just Morgan Stanley, it was all the big banks, investment banks who do most of them and why they do this, I guess the customers or clients want them to do it. But they are expected to give a prediction for where the s&p will be by the end of the trading year. And you name them all the big guns all the names, they Barclays The thing was the worst there were just so they predicted 3700 So that were just so wildly out and loads of them, which is so wildly out. So what was interesting, so I posted that kind of benign comment just as we're wrapping up for the year end. I thought well, that's just interesting that the point is not really to have go at them. But you think, with the armies of economists and PhDs, and whatever they call all this sort of complex experts that these organizations have got, and they weren't, it wasn't as if they were just a little bit out, they were just wildly out, you could not be more wrong if you tried. So I posted that and it just took off. It's it went viral as the cool kids say, because I think it's about half a million engagements on the whole thing, and then you had loads of other people piling on and everyone's got their opinion on this, I'd have to say it and no names mentioned. But back to the point and maybe something that you're going to talk about, we certainly come back to this every time and one of the reasons that we're all likely to be in gainful employment for the next few years, at least because it keeps coming up. So I post that and it's it is just about the s&p, but let's face it, the s&p is the biggest, it represents most of kind of human ingenuity, 500 of the biggest, most successful companies in the world. So it is it is representative. And and somebody piled it after that and says yes, but what if clients are happy with cash returns? And you're quoting, like a US dollar denominated account or something? And I just thought, I didn't reply to you, there's just too much wrong with the statement of thought, what if clients are quite happy with cash returns? And I don't know where to go with that one, because they pack in that way. And also about dollar denomination and stuff like that this is and to say things that that just again, unfortunately, and we've commented and things like this in the past and other sort of well known journalist who have said same sort of things that, what have you. And I think the person said, I think it's the same comment. If it's not, it might be a blend of a couple of others. But what if the client is taking income, inflation is at 10%, and they're taking income at 5% from it, that's going to be a disaster, from what the market went down. And to say things like that is another example of someone who doesn't understand the fundamentals of real financial planning. And I'm sorry to keep harping on about this. And then we started like a sort of broken broken records keep going on about it. But this is like a couple of days ago that this happened keeps happening. If something from what would appear to be then I don't want this is not personal at all. Everyone's got their own opinions. Everyone's got their own views. But there's a basic fundamental misunderstanding of the work that we do. It was incredible.

Andy Hart:

I wouldn't say financial planning Mellon, I'd say investing, you know, this individual, I know who they were highly qualified, spent hundreds of hours in this space 1000s of hours with clients and publicly confirming that they are investing illiterate. I love it. It's absolutely brilliant. But it's mind blowing that someone can spend that long doing their trade, and still have not a clue what on earth they're actually meant to be doing. It's beautiful, but it's insane. So that even the professionals have no idea what they're doing, let alone end clients that are just bombarded with complete and utter, you know, BS from usually young broke journalists that also were investing illiterates. But hey, ho, as you say, will still be in gainful employment.

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, okay. And slightly slightly, leading from that my next topic, because it was a very quick one I've just had, everybody. Well, I'll talk about that. She's in the meat potatoes. But I had, I've taken on board a new a new client found that at the very tail end of last year, had the discovery meeting on a Monday had the planning meeting on a Tuesday and at the planning meeting, they said yes, we want to come on board. So effectively, they were they were, the whole loop took 48 hours, which I was, which I was happy with, of course, this client born in 1980. So that makes him 43. And he is a high flyer he works he worked for BT and he's in that he wasn't the b He is and the BT group personal pension scheme. Uber bright guy Ultra driven really nice, a delegator perfect with a half million pounds in his in his pension pot. And you know, before I do the thing of probably because obviously each client is different. But before I shoehorn him onto my preferred platform, I have to look at the his existing arrangements with the XYZ insurance company. And he's got a very cheap scheme because it's the BT pension scheme. And obviously, group pension schemes do get these discounts. So I've got to be cognizant of that. And the platform that I might move him and his family on to are going to be maybe 30 bits more a year. But this is where the whole asset allocation or the Miss asset allocation thing is just so incredible. This guy has for the last 10 years or so had his pension fund in a used in an insurance company fund cat equity exposure at 60%. Six zero, basically over 10 years that fund has trailed inflation. It's just staggering. It's a he he has lost money in real terms over 10 years and he's in a fund that's kept equities or 60%. He's 43. The Cash Flow indicates that his pension fund is likely to remain invested for the rest of his life. And here we are worrying about Oh my god, this this platform is 28 bits more expensive than than just the value we can add by encouraging clients to go into the great companies the world and just just just just hold their nerve through the temporary declines. It knocks everything else into a cocked hat. So I just what I haven't done with this client and I'm gonna go back to my said, just just just tell me. Ah, how did you end up in this fun because God forbid, this is the default fund for the BT pension scheme and I've got loads of people in their 30s and 40s going into a fund that hasn't even kept pace with inflation over the last 10 years. Absolutely. Well, I know Andy is one of your rings your bells is it to me it's pretty scandalous I'm happy to move on unless anyone's got anything to comment on that. Okay, good stuff. All right. The last but No, me no means least. Voice. You've got the Bitcoin story in full. regale us. Yeah, so

Carl Widger:

we spoke about the Bitcoin surge during 2023. And it was up 156% In the last episode. And then I read this article, and because I don't follow Bitcoin, because I don't believe in it. But when I read this article, I thought, you know, we need to tell the full story here. Because yes, Bitcoin was up 156% in 2023, and is at about $46,000. Now, but it peaked in November 2021, which is not that long ago, November November 2021, at 69,000. So it needs to grow by another 50% from its 46% farmers 46,000. To get back to its peak. Now, we've all been through a period of we've spoken about this a lot kind of sideways movement, and how difficult it is with clients. So I think everybody needs to be cognizant of where this has come from. And the volatility that it does that is associated with Bitcoin, because it's a, there's a long, long way to go, if you invested a lot of your money in this back in late 2021 There's a long way to go before you're back to parity. So I just thought, you know, rather than because I'm reading you know, Alan has just spoken about it there about all these predictions, you know, on the rise or the continued continued surge of Bitcoin, just be careful because, you know, it is extremely volatile. And, you know, for financial planning clients, you know, think about how difficult you found it when the markets were going sideways for two years. Well, if you know you were in a position whereby we need another having had 156% growth we need another 50% growth from today to get you back to break even that's where you're going to be at if you invest in Bitcoin and just I suppose generally speaking, I was biting my my my tongue there Ireland as you were talking because, you know, I think a lot of these predictions are driven by what flush these investment houses can offer. And they're you know, people saying you know, cash returns should be fine well, maybe they have a cash funds that they're putting out there you know, and I saw

Alan Smith:

Chuck does it charge 1% a year to manage cash perhaps but

Carl Widger:

I saw I saw looked at there's lots of instances out there you just got to just be careful who you're listening to and where I'm bought they're motivated by I saw another another firm in Ireland whose global macro council came out with some predictions their global macro like

Unknown:

Jesus Christ, ask Nick

Alan Smith:

What is your global macro Council believe the markets are going to do

Nick Lincoln:

well we are global macro Council has a top down bottom up approach to global stock picking on a value rotation basically, we think the cyclical cyclical headwinds are favorable for a non secular return to fundamental valuations love it

Andy Hart:

or they honestly they love that Christmas

Carl Widger:

dinner and your mom so how do you do no love I'm I'm heading off to global macro.

Alan Smith:

But But call you make you make a very good couple of good points. That one is there. See? It's an example of classic I think the Warren Buffett statement never ask a barber if you're the haircut, that people have got incentives or to see these things. It wasn't long ago is what you're talking about the like the big high a Bitcoin of a couple of years ago. There were people you know, I mean, you know, intelligent people that were predicting Bitcoin was going to get to a million dollars a Bitcoin not there where it is now. 40 odd 1000 is going to get to a million within quadric and that sounds very convincing and compelling and you've got so much psychology around Bitcoin. There's a massive fear of missing out because what if it did go to a million and I didn't invest in it, I'd be the worst decision In my life sort of thing. So there's like

Carl Widger:

a bit of Bitcoin sorry, ain't going away, right? So that's, that's for sure. And it looks like there's going to be an ETF approval by the Fed and all that kind of stuff. So this is going to be high on everyone's agenda, right? And then the people who are incentivized to get you into bitcoin are going to tell you about the 156%. But remember, you know, you got to do all I'll say is you got we have need 50% more growth, which is mahoosive. In order to get you back to even if you invested in November 21. The

Alan Smith:

last thing that I will say on this is one of the reasons I believe is driven the price that was exactly because of that is getting regulatory approval in the US. BlackRock have announced, interestingly, Vanguard has said not interested, tells you something BlackRock, don't mention the X desperately searching for his drop. Okay, so But Black Rock, have said yes, they're going to launch this now. If you think about one of the probably the fundamental reason and the foundation of Bitcoin in particular, but all cryptocurrencies but Bitcoin in particular, is the kind of decentralization it's not government controlled. It's not bank control. It's not institutional control. It's sort of for the people by the people. As soon as you create a product, which is regulated by the SEC, and is operated by an organization like BlackRock, you've lost all the fundamental reasons that you've forgotten everything else. Got there in the end, regulated

Carl Widger:

by the Fed, but you're right, by the SEC. Yeah. Yeah.

Alan Smith:

But the Fed are part of the whole sort of institutional thing. And that's the point of this everyone if you're all the real bitcoin is called the maximalists. They say no, we're nothing to do with this decentralized government, central banks, all that sort of stuff. We can control all this stuff ourselves. And yet, you know, there's a product because organizations like BlackRock and others, no doubt, of course, they can make a few bucks, and I'll be interesting what they charge and the ETF will certainly be charging a good few basis points to people. And I bet they'll raise billions on a bet they will a lot of advisors will see with nothing wrong with putting 5% of your wealth into it. Anyway. It's an interesting story. Good point, you make call. We'll carry on this the spirit of kumbaya in 2024. Brilliant point, Carl, I love what you say. And I love all your comments.

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, 27 minutes. 27 seconds in. I think we've given the topical titbits a damn good thrashing. Let's move on to the next segment of the show the meat and potatoes of the show. And yes, 2023 is behind us. And we're starting a new year and we have a fresh sheet of paper. The canvas is clean, the slate has been wiped. But it's also still a good time to look back at what we did in 2023. Things that went well, things that went not so well and perhaps what our goals are for 2024. So, car voice, della Bochy, lead us off with three wins that you had in 2023. Professional wins. Yeah,

Carl Widger:

so this is kind of inspired by I have a coach called Tommy Erie who works with me and Tommy doesn't, never knows how much how important he is to me, and how much I believe in what he says. And then try and actually put in place what he says. So this was something that Tommy encouraged me to do. And kind of November, December, which was the kind of three to one which was you know, your three wins your three kind of not. So your three things that didn't work so well. And then your your big goal for next year, so and so to lead off from my three. So I'm trying to mostly do this, I would encourage people, you know, this is a good exercise to do kind of professionally and personally, obviously, they will cross over. But, you know, sitting down and doing this exercise is really, really good. Anyway, three things I think we did really well in 2023. And Mattis got out of the car, I think we hired really well. So last year, we added I think six new people to the team, which is you know, significant. It's a kind of 50% increase on our headcount. And we took our time with it, right. And that was a great learning from the past, however, we might have hired quickly and just got people on board that maybe didn't necessarily suit the culture of the business. But I think taking our time and spreading the load. So it wasn't just me hiring. We had various people in the business doing the hiring, and we had kind of two people involved in each of the hire. So I think we're in a really, really good place with a planning meeting now on the 16th of January, and everyone's going to be up at night. I'm genuinely excited as to where we can go with the team that we've put in place now. So So that was a definite yes and good. Green Tech for us. events. We did loads of events last year. I've spoken a lot about, you know, the Mattis way of doing the events, etc. I think we did you know, 14 or 15 different events ranging from big ones to smaller ones and everything in between. We did you know, that that man only golf stuff, we did a couple stuff, we had our client advisory panel, some of the guys in Limerick, Rana did a panel towards the end of the year as well. So I think we're, we're getting in a really good groove with the events, they do cost money, but we're kind of we've created budgets, no, for every private client manager. And we have a lot of really good stuff planned for next year, which is important, because we used to do things kind of ad hoc, and just Oh, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. Whereas actually, if you take the time to plan it out at the start of the year, which is what we did in 2023, at the start of the year, it works much, much better. And you get definitely greater bang for your buck. And you can kind of you know, prepare the events. So that can be that five, six star experience. And then the last one, and I'll talk about maybe not so weird in a little while, but I it was amazing for me to see some of the individuals on the team really, you know, gone that extra mile, and maximizing their own potential. And that's inspiring to me when when you know, you see this after all was started. And this was the it was the Witcher story, right? It's no longer it's mad as Arlen No. And there's an awful lot of key players in the team. And that inspires me because it pushes me on and makes me try to get better every day. So that was definitely something that was it, that gives me great pride. So obviously, I'm gonna kind of try and develop that if I can, again in 2024. So who's next give us three wins for 2023

Nick Lincoln:

Brilliant stuff. Shall I go? Yeah. Happy with me going. Thanks, guys. Okay, so my three well. So the first thing that I did that I'm on reflection, very happy about is my content, I want to have the most elegant, simple financial planning, business will be a lifestyle business in the you know, that Joe Public can possibly be exposed to. And in the last year, as I've talked about before, I've done that with my investment approach, and I've rationalized it further. One Fund to rule them all. My message to you, I need three pots, you know, you've got your tax free pot, you've got your free money pot, and you've got your growth pot. That's all you need. And I'm going to continually hone in 2024 This is not my goal, but it's it's part of the win of last year is to use language that people understand I will never use an advice letter. I'll never put the word crystallized funds in an advice letter, I will never put the phrase pen pension commencement lump sum. In an advice letter. I think it's evil. It's just evil to Deleuze people with his garbage. It's all about communication and keeping things simple and making things more and more refined. As Andy Andy often says, we spend years learning stuff in this in the industrial side of our business, and then we shed it and what's left behind this, this is the essence of what we should be doing. My second when was I had a really good business. Yeah, I mean, it's it sounds, you know, somewhat gross somehow but I mean, I I took on board seven families last year for which for me is a considerable amount of new of new clients I sent to me that's seven clients saved from the financial wilderness. And I haven't done anything particularly different in terms of my marketing. So I didn't do any marketing. But I think you know, with with, with trapping everything else, I think what goes around comes around as somehow you do get back what you put out there. And the third one is on its own trap. Actually, that trap is my third win. I just can't pretend that hasn't been a really good fun thing that's in my life now and the boost we get from people who when we meet when we go to events and stuff who love trap, it's it's absolutely fantastic. I do so it's been a real Philip for me over the last year. So those are my three. Those are my three wins. Gentlemen, if there's no comments on any of those will go to the next. One of you who wants to describe your three wins for 2023.

Alan Smith:

Should I go? Thank you. Yeah, wait. Thank you, Nick. We will be will have been in business for 20 years this year. So last year was a 19th year in business. So it's pretty mature business now. Really. And so in terms of what was what was a win. We had our best year ever in terms of both top line revenue, profitability and client wins. So you reflect back unstable water. You know, you said you did nothing differently you said that you did nothing you had a great year as well, you did nothing differently. Don't forget last year was, to all intents purposes was was a challenging year. We'd also, you know, record inflation, you know, war in the Middle East Ukraine war still going on, et cetera, et cetera, loads and loads of headwinds as your macro committee would, would like to. And yeah, you know, we've we've all seem to have had, you know, positive years. And so I reflect back, what did we do? What was it like? I think one of the biggest things that we did was we got intentional, I think intentionality is a big thing is very easy after several years just to kind of drift along and one year is like the next. If you put like a lot of things in life, if you say, you're going to do something, and you're really focused on it, and you say, we are going to achieve it. And then you begin to work out how you're going to do if you say we're going to have the best year ever, you can't just show up and do everything that you've done before and assume that everything will suddenly be become better. So we set ourselves some stretch goals and some stretch targets. We began it's still a work in progress. But we really began to nail the marketing side of things after all these years and recognizing the sort of modern digital era. And I'll talk a little bit more about that in a moment. My colleague, some you know, we all know, to varying degrees, George shout out to George Bob kind of headset heads are sort of marketing and developing. And as a sort of separate shout out to him. And whilst we're promoting things, George has just launched a little sort of side hustle, or for advisors who wants to launch their own podcast we all believe in the podcast as a medium and he's really nailed it and he produces my award winning podcast bulletproof entrepreneur and there's yeah there's there's none of the other noise there's none of the heavy breathing there's no painters in the background there's no alarms and stuff he does a really good job but he's got he's launched a product a course which is I think it's well worth checking out check him out online George, BB or var B O V The last thing we add it's sort of it's related to calls calls point as well is that we got more intentional begin to track you know, data track data. We've never really tracked data rigorously in the past but you know, proper businesses do that grown up mature businesses, they know whether they know the revenue streams and know the profit centers, they know where progress is happening. So they got far better tracking data, we use the so called be cut remember with Microsoft or got a built in tool that you can all your grid, there's so much data around our businesses, but we're paying a lot more attention to that my own content program got just better improved. I looked at LinkedIn numbers. Last week that LinkedIn numbers I had something like 4 million impressions of last year now you think well what the hell is an impression? What does it mean but that stuff has led to so many things I've mentioned before are it still is second to referrals, but are sort of digital marketing creating whatever you want to talk about is now become a significant positive influence to our revenue and our growth. So that was a success. And the last one I'll say is a personal one, but I think it's right as it relates to all these things, which was I was intentional about carving out my own time you know, I had two weeks skiing which I love doing I took four weeks off pretty much I know we've talked about do you actually switch off completely I don't switch off completely but I had a good time over the summer and of course the the trap trips which what goes on abroad is stays abroad but our trip to New Yorker and the summer our trip to Paris for the rugby it was just fabulous really good. Sooner more, but really good experiences and I think that's really important as well. So for reflect about what what was good whilst we have a good year. Plenty of sort of personal time, family time, fun time as well. So I'll leave it there. Thank you.

Nick Lincoln:

That's excellent. Thank you, Anna for those 13 wins were really really good and I'm glad you got through so quickly. Okay, so let's get let's turn the carousel of doom back pointer. Apologies laughing his head off, but you can't hear him forever. He's good. He's muted. Carl, what were two lessons that you learned from those

Andy Hart:

back to me, Nick, I'm

Nick Lincoln:

sorry. Sorry,

Andy Hart:

sorry. he rambled on so long you forgotten where we are.

Nick Lincoln:

What day is it now anyway, let's get back on I

Andy Hart:

wish the internet well. I'm going to keep it short and sweet. So my number three when was Maven money hit 300 episodes, sort of a win loss sort of thing because I've I've I've hung up the mic which is rather unlike me I feel like a bit of an amateur now not professional when it comes to creating content anywhere I felt it was it run its course

Unknown:

And he knows about everything and can't be told anything. His name is Andrew Hart.

Andy Hart:

Thank you, Nick. Okay, so that's my number three Maven money hit 300 episodes, I stopped it in September 2023. And currently I'm at 1.1, that 5 million downloads. So all good on that front. Next is a mini personal when I moved into a new home, I've been divorced about three and a half years now sort of in between places been a bit of a nightmare. But now I finally found a lovely place that I call my perfect home for me and my nice. Nice fridge. Nice fridge, same fridges unit. So that's all good. My number one when again, it's a professional when humans on the management premium, my sort of global membership resource thing for financial advisors, we hit 200. Members, I think we hit 200 members in November 2003. So there's a lot of content we put out via there. And hopefully we're trying to, you know, spread the good message. So that's, that's my final wins. So that's my 321.

Alan Smith:

Just Just a quick point, Nick, just you criticize me, there's no point in me saying we had a good year. That's, that's number one. Number two is such and such. Because that doesn't mean anything to anyone. The important point is to reflect back on why and what you did and other people might want to do or reflect on or just you know, it's just we got to be careful about an element of So what now on to the failures.

Carl Widger:

So what are two things that didn't work? So well, last year, our needs work. So I think the first one is linked to actually something that I said was a win, which is a could see, some of the team members really just gone for it, right? Give them their wings, and they took the opportunity and they went for it. But what has worked for us, we're actually 10 years old this year 2024, which is amazing, right? But what has got us to displays here, and what will work going forward are two different things. So what what I found certainly towards the second half of the year was that there wasn't that I'm not going to say there was no teamwork, of course, there was loads of teamwork, but we didn't have a concerted approach in terms of teams and communication within the organization. So we've worked gonna try and do an awful lot of work on, you know, making sure that one person is responsible for, you know, making sure that there's massive communication within the team. And just to see, like, you know, if we want to go fast, we go on our own. But if we want to go far, we go together. And it's really, I'm absolutely comfortable that we have a team full of massive potential. But we I gotta, it's my job to put the structures in place to make sure that we go as a team, and we do this as a team. So I think that's a, that's a big learning curve for me. And that kind of leads to the second one, which is, I got totally and utterly bogged down between the two roles that I do, which is the CEO role, and the private client manager role. And as of the end of this year, I managed, I still manage the most amount of money within the business, that's going to change. Because what what happened in the second half of the year was I got so overwhelmed with all of the work that I had to do, I ended up being an old case CEO, and an OK, private line manager. And that's not going to serve the business very well at all. So we've spent a lot of time myself on our chairman, Tom Tierney, and our CFO Patiyala. And working on how best do we make sure that you know, we spread the load, I suppose in terms of the private client manager work and make me focus more on the SEO work. It's a risk. Okay, it's definitely a risk. And it's a little bit scary, but I'll hold the whole thing back if I don't actually do this. So that's I'm not going to be leaving the private line manager work entirely. But I'm definitely going to be doing way way way less of it because I got to trust in the great people that we have in the team. And I got to trust that clients will actually be better served with dedicated PMS as opposed to me being reactionary and, you know, I'm depending all the time on the relationships that I've built up with people. That's, you know, that'll last for a while, but after a while people will start gotten pissed off. So there are the two kind of learnings are the two things that didn't work. So well last year that I'm going to be focusing Okay,

Nick Lincoln:

Mr. Smith, comment that just just a bit of value. Just

Alan Smith:

a little bit of feedback to that, on that last point in particular car. This is just the classic road that growth oriented firms go on, which I think you and I have spoken about this, at least briefly in the past, and I've gone through exactly the same thing some years ago, got to the point where I was just I was best mediocre at everything I know, you're gonna say you that was an improvement. But obviously, because there's so many things on my plate as juggling everything same as you, biggest clients, all the major clients, all the more complex clients plus us running a business and you know, hiring people doing all negotiating with landlords, etc. So I stepped away from it. This is a common problem. I've actually got a call later on today with another very successful adviser who'd like to talk about this, it might be the subject of a future meat, potatoes or something is kind of the natural evolution as you grow. From being a sort of full time financial planner, and then strategically in running the business and the CEO kind of role, which is a different role. And the both have full time roles. And something has to give. So it could be an interesting conversation in the future. But yeah, good. Good points.

Carl Widger:

Thank you.

Nick Lincoln:

Hockey lucky. So round to me, then the two lessons that I learned in 2023. And again, Alan, this may be just a bit too much. So what but so what the lesson I've learned is that we we say this a lot, but we do come live in a goldfish bowl to a degree. And we think the entire world, our world is doing the same out there that we do in our little goldfish bowl, and we don't and our work is never done. It's just incredible. I think we take for granted that sometimes we're kind of achieving this, this Nirvana where everyone's switched on to real financial planning. And Joe Public gets I'm telling the never will that Morgan Stanley thing that I use the tropical tidbits whether you can find a million examples of that stuff still being pumped out there that we have to protect people from the filth of the mainstream media, Paul Lewis's comments that I picked up on the end of last year, and I wrote an article for him, I surely seem to be a watering newsletter, who's Paul Lewis is highly influential financial journalist who's kept his pension funding cash for the last 10 years and is immensely proud about it. So our work is never done. That's the lesson I've got to remember, we've got to be vocal, we've got to be passionate about what we do real financial advice is still absolutely tiny sliver of what it could be. And it'll never be more than that. And that, you know, is fine, but we just got the concept. And the second lesson is dovetailing of that again, sorry, and this is also a bit so what is the volume, your ideal client profile clients or prospects who come to you still don't have any clue as to what you actually do until until they sit down with you. So again, it's just being it's not making any assumptions. It's just having really great discovery meetings, using whatever means you can whether it's the bucket, whether it's showing them a very quick cash flow graph from a mock up client or whatever, giving them something to look at. And understand and not using the jargon and terminology and getting into conversations about oh, you know, your pension funds, fourth quarter, we can get up to second. It just just, we real financial planning is such an esoteric art form and it is art as much as science, and very few people do it and no one out there knows anything about it. Those are the two lessons I'm going to learn. I think for for 2024. Try and retain when I communicate with people, Mr. Smith

Alan Smith:

number one thing I did wrong last year, was I overcommitted? I said yes to pretty much everything. I spoke it God knows how many events and the hearts event Abraham's event, Lee Robertson's event, money marketing events, gardeners, all sorts of other things. My profile was pretty high. Last year, I wrote articles for the trade press that a lot of others, and it was kind of all over the place I just said and all those things you say yes. And the moments they just they take time to take effort and they remove you from what you're really supposed to be doing.

Andy Hart:

And the stuff at the top note, well, what do you what do

Alan Smith:

you say when you're when you're trying to get famous? You say yes to everything. It's your phrase? Yeah. If

Andy Hart:

you want to be fine. Well, we've been we've been

Nick Lincoln:

management. So it's a warren

Andy Hart:

buffett thing. Yeah, exactly.

Alan Smith:

Yeah. He says no to everything. Which was a lesson to be learned. The other thing was it was inconsistency. I was kind of, there's a rumor out there that I've got a kind of Magpie brain, and I'm just sort of floating around this, like shiny new objects. Well, there was some truth in it last year, you know, AIB broke through last year. I spent a lot of time now that there's, you know, we're not going to talk about it right now. There's a lot of huge amounts of potential. We're using some things already but but it was kind of all over the shop, really in terms of Yeah, so I was just I was kind of disorganized. So I overcommitted and I was I was inconsistent. Those are the learnings and those are the things I'm going to do different this year. Cheers.

Nick Lincoln:

Okey dokey great stuff. Mr. Hart, I will not forget you this time. I do apologize for last time.

Andy Hart:

We keep it short and sweet. bit a bit off topic. But when I read the script for the show, I thought it was two things that you've learned from last year, not sort of sort of things that you've sort of made mistakes. Anyway, whatever, I'll keep it simple. I'm not really a fan of goals. I think people should try and acquire new skills that will then lead to goals. When people set goals, they're just that they're quite loose. So I'm a fan of learning new skills anyway. So a skill I learned last year was PowerPoint sounds a bit lame, but I need to up my skills on it. Anyway. So that's, that's what I'm basically just trying to say don't set goals, learn new skills. So if this year, you've got a lot of stuff to achieve, rather than saying, I'm going to do X buy then or why buy then just learn new skills like this called your your skill stack, as Scott Adams talks about? And yeah, that's a final point. My next learning is, it's an investing point. But principles we'll see through the 2023. The facts did change. Yeah, interest rates went through the roof, cash was finally attractive. But still, the principles apply, you know, human ingenuity, invest in human ingenuity, the stock market is human ingenuity captured, you know, global equities, all of these facts change, you know, you're predominantly invested in these 500. Companies that have 500 CEOs, that all 500 are making decisions around all the facts that have changed. And that's why the stock market will always outsmart anything that's thrown in it, because you've got real people making real decisions based on the new facts have been presented to us. So the principles never change, even though the facts will always change. So again, it's just hammering home that point. And 2023 was challenging from that point of view. And during the sidewards years, the downwards markets, that's when great advisors stand tall, you know, during the times and the markets are flying. I mean, any idiot can make a sort of living out of it. The absolute shambles. Yeah, back to this prediction thing. I mean, the stock market is generally going up 75% At the time, and going down 25% At the time, so if I was a pirate and pinstripe was asked to do a prediction every year, I would just go with the data 75% the time in the markets going up and advancing 25% of the time, it's temporarily declining. So, you know, these are these are numbers, people that are asked to make these predictions. So you would just go high, because you got to 75%, you got a three to one odds in your favor. Anyway, that's it,

Nick Lincoln:

it bleeds it leads, isn't it people you know, the Morgan Stanley expert says markets gonna tumble it's like, oh, shit, but

Andy Hart:

if you just follow the data, and you just said it's gonna go up, it's gonna go up by 10% Next year, you know, that's roughly where we're going to end up and you'll be you'll be right or more correct than all these other idiots. It's just ridiculous. Anyway, back to you. Thank

Nick Lincoln:

you, Andrew. So Ultra has just slacked off the purpose, that point of setting goals and three to one The final thing and I think is gold. So then a bunch of What's your goal for 2024? So

Carl Widger:

I'm loving that drumroll. Anyway. Yeah, Alan. Alan mentioned the word intentional. working and living for me. So I I've been down the burnout road before, right? And you'd imagine, well, if you've been down there once, you wouldn't let it happen again, I nearly let it happen again, this year, I spent Christmas nursing a bit of a cold and the reason I'm standing today is because I popped a disc in my back. So for me, that's my body going dude, sort something out here because otherwise you're on a slow road to nowhere. So for me it's to be really intentional about looking after myself so that you know, my job here at matters is we have a really good thing going so if I can be the best type of you know, leader to be a visionary to inspire people well then that's, that's where I'm going to have the most impact and that's where this team needs me most. So I need to in order to do that, and the same for home for my kids you know, to in order to be the best dad at home and the best leader at Metis I need to look after myself number one and look you know, that sounds awfully selfish and self indulgent and all of that.

Nick Lincoln:

That sounds that sounds muddy. Yeah, and

Carl Widger:

look you You three guys are great accountability partners for me and when I'm stepping over the edge and gone towards Yeah, but it's not bullshit in I do have great support around me in terms of friends, family colleagues, and I'm going to be listening to that advice. And I'm actually really, really excited as to why 2024 is gonna bring, I feel it's gonna be my best year ever, I really, really do. So very, very excited. Your

Alan Smith:

point, their call about sort of looking after yourself is really well made. And again, we've talked about this in the past. I mentioned it to you, there's there's a book called essentialism, Greg McEwan has a chapter in that there's a whole section you can look at his specific logs on it's called, protect the assets. And the point, the point being you can your people in your circumstances to look after everyone else around them, and trying to keep the team going and support the team and the family and everything else. But you're the big dominant, if you go down, if you're getting stressed, or you sort of can't show up, then there's so many other negatives that happen as a result of that. So it's so important to protect the asset and the number one asset is you and it sounds selfish, as you say. But it's absolutely not to be selfish not to do that is the point, but check out Greg McEwan, writing.

Andy Hart:

I think all of us on this call have read enough books to know what we need to be doing in terms of looking after ourselves. But yeah, implementing monk mode a lot more in 2024 is going to be something that yeah, I'm also going to be doing as much as I can. But it's hard. But you know, we can read all the books, we can list all the podcasts, we can watch all the YouTube videos that we did wake up every day and put in the right behaviors. And we know what the triggers dominoes are for ourselves. Yeah, so let's try and keep each other all accountable. Yeah, anyway, that's it. Okay,

Nick Lincoln:

well, okay, let's stick around to me, I think with my one goal for 2024 when it kinda time ties, no

Andy Hart:

more, no more of that drop note, we've had enough of that drop.

Nick Lincoln:

So there's two more to go, mate. And I'm gonna do with all three when you're talking. My one ties in with voices, sort of health and well, being minds to be more stoic and not to get maybe so caught up in what happens? You know, Marcus Aurelius said, and then Shakespeare quoted that as well. But it's not what like, it's not what happens to you in life. It's how you choose how you choose. That's the important word there, how you choose to react to events. So I'm just going to try and disassociate myself from what happens to me and focus more on actually how you react to it. So I think just just from a just from being a more, a more loving, reasonable, rounded lik link, and that's my goal for 2024

Carl Widger:

for failure there

Nick Lincoln:

right Smithy?

Alan Smith:

Simplify, in other words, in a world of overwhelmed. Yeah. And so much so many other languages. Do perfect if you just said Simplify, simplify, and focus.

Nick Lincoln:

Yep, that's great. That's great. Right? So we're getting to the end of this. Now we have one person to go with one item. He doesn't do them. But Ultra will squeeze one out for us. Come on over give us a go.

Andy Hart:

For me, it's trap live because it's the only sort of for me, it's trap live. Because all the other stuff I've done before in terms of conferences and trap and stuff. So trap live is my goal for 2024. So hopefully it's a great success. So yeah, we're gonna we're gonna put that together. So yeah, back to you, Nick. Excellent. That's

Nick Lincoln:

a good point trap trap live deer trap. This is May the ninth Thursday, May the ninth the real advisor podcast.com There's a website spanking brand new and shiny, not yet defiled by the toils of 2024. Go there go to the river advisor podcast.com and register your interest in trap live May the ninth somewhere in London if we can ever get a venue organized. So we're looking forward to seeing as many of you there as our venue will accommodate. Okay, we've given it now what is it? Look at that almost exactly on the hour. 59 minutes. 12 seconds and counting. Oh, there she is. I can see her. She's waddling up the drive. She has the it's amazing this this never works when I go to another is it the TRAPPIST questions drop doesn't work. Okay, just trust me yet again. That the post is at the at the door and she's brought a sack of trapeze questions which we're going to go through you can leave a question for the trap pack to answer in the pinned tweet on Twitter or X. Thank you, Andrew. That's the better opening letter opening one might be next. Stop yet. Thank you and leave a question via the pinned tweet at the top of the Twitter timeline and your questions will be answered. We're kind of now into September from last year. The questions we're going through we will get to you just bear with us. So the first question is from Guy skin You guys on LinkedIn and I'll put a link to his LinkedIn profile in the so called show notes. Happy New Year Aaron Cunningham. Guys get it asked can you do an episode on advisor remuneration and paraplanner? remuneration also interested another couple of question another coupler also interested to hear your thoughts on who does what within the client journey process right? That's I mean, okay, let's just do the adviser remuneration and power plan of remuneration so much time we got left Smith or watch.

Alan Smith:

I can lead off on this. Yeah, interesting one, I think the interest industry profession column what you will has evolved significantly over the years. But some there's some basic things which still have sit in place. When I was back in the day when I was drunk in charge of a wheelbarrow.

Unknown:

Grab yourself a drink, a very long drink. It's story time. With Alan Smith,

Nick Lincoln:

we bring output an app for special occasions. Okay,

Alan Smith:

I was really That's my favorite one, I was just trying to lead you on that one. When I was in alperton, and other associated places back in the day, there was a kind of default adviser compensation model that worked, which is effectively a third, a third, a third of the third for the advisor, a third for the cost of the overhead and a regulatory cost everything else and the third for profits. And you know, over the years, this has evolved and changed so much. And I've spoken to a lot of a lot of founders and CEOs of advisory firms over the years. And I've seen some spreadsheets, you need a degree in maths and rocket sciences to work out how the hell you get paid. There's so much complexity. But again, and in line with my goal for the year, you go full circle and go back to the things that sort of somehow always worked. What's changed over the years, though, quite interesting is that the industry, or the profession, as is now has moved from an industry which is a sales industry. And I'll tell you what, if you could sell back in the day, especially if you're a direct sales or something, you deserve to get paid quite highly, because it was quite a difficult skill. And as we know from the data in the past, so many people joined up sort of direct selling organizations, and most of them failed, most didn't work, because it's a tough thing to do to succeed. Year after year consistently. Once you've gone through your kind of friends and family list, like apparently all these organizations would encourage you to do, there was no more you couldn't sell. So you're kind of out of business. So those that were successes, were able to sell, build relationships, build rapport, had to get paid appropriately to do the job. But we're far more of a service profession. Now. So the skill sets are different. So the remuneration needs to be different. There's no sort of right and wrong way of doing it. But broadly speaking, you got to start with the company needs to generate profit, what's your sort of target profit margin? What does it cost to run your organization? What are the sort of the fixed costs, the overheads, cetera and your work, but what is the reasonable and competitive amounts to pay anyone in the organization be the advisors paraplanners, anyone at all, our target our goal. And we're pretty consistent on this. There's a lot of data out there where you can benchmark, we always want to be top quartile in terms of compensation, across the board. And so we've always benchmark that we make sure that we are that we're competitive. But if you're deciding on where to work purely on money, and nothing else, then you wouldn't fit here anyway, we want to create the right culture, the right environment, and also all the other employee benefits. And I think ultimately, there's a lot of research on this, read Dan Pink's book called drive for an example. But money should be a hygiene factor, people should be paid well prepared appropriately. But the issue is to be sure many other things which are relevant, Dan Pink talks about mastery. So we help our all of our team, develop, get qualified, etcetera, they want autonomy, be able to make their own decisions. And money shouldn't be the only thing that the do. So I think that's a starter for 10. So broadly speaking, that kind of third third, a third model is vaguely in that ballpark. But it depends what role you are performing. If you're somebody can go out when a lot of business go and bring in loads and loads of new fantastic clients. You could expect a different numeric remuneration model to someone who's just showing up as a just but doing the job day to day job of delivering financial planning to clients because that's a more common skill set. If you like someone that can win big ticket clients. That's my starter for 10. Who wants to go now?

Carl Widger:

Yeah, I'll jump in. So look, we've like any other business. We've, you know, done various models throughout the years and 10 years in what we settled on, and we been at this probably for three, maybe four years now. And so for our private life managers, it's a percentage of all income so that you know, really generates people who bring in new clients, but also remunerates people to make sure that existing clients stay on board. Because after all, it's equally as important for us to have happy clients that you know, are really sticky and stay with the business as it is to get new clients in the door as well. And then I suppose, broadly speaking, for the rest of the team who aren't in business development, or bringing in clients, so that's your financial planners, your client service people, we have, as you say, a very competitive basic salary, but we do do team bonus, and an individual bonus, the individual bonus is based on personal KPIs, you have to get to a certain score. And if you get to a certain score on your individual KPIs, you're then eligible for the team bonus as well. But you got to sort your own personal KPIs first. That's worked really well for us over the last couple of years, where we've just concluded eight full quarters where we've got full team bonus, which is really good. I suppose the danger with doing that is the people kind of come to expect it. But anyway, if we keep outperforming we keep paying bonuses. And so you know, look, I think rewarding, not just the salespeople, ie the private line managers, but rewarding the entire team, for the team doing really well is vitally important. If you want everyone engaged and doing their best for the business.

Alan Smith:

Just a quick point on that call. In the UK, at least you have to be a bit careful about having, you know, sales, people being remunerated about force for sales. There's FCA have published information on this they want and they're asking, there's another dear CEO letter to think just going out more, I think, focused on the discretionary manager side of things, but they're uncomfortable because they believe in His true incentives drive behavior. So it might lead to unsatisfactory practices for that. So just something for UK advisors are aware of that and conversant with that there needs to be a broader base of incentive of activities. For advisors, other than Yeah, winning for clients. But but but you know, it's you know, I'm

Carl Widger:

sure you're not afraid management fair, very fair point. And that's why the private client managers are not just paid on new biz are paid on everything in the book. And that's why the KPIs are there. So the personal KPIs, but I mean, you have to have some metric as to, you know, we can't be paying bonuses if the businesses is, for example, losing money, which is not, but you know, so there. That's why we have those in place, but it's fair point. And the same applies here. So we do have to be careful as to how we structure those. But it's, it's if the business is doing well, then everybody does well.

Nick Lincoln:

Great stuff. Thanks, guys. I mean, myself, and Andy can't really contribute to this. But it's a it's an ongoing one and guy you asked, Could we do an episode or we could do an episode? I know, but I mean, yeah. And he, there is.

Andy Hart:

Alan, can you think of any? Who are the people that come out of these benchmark study reports and stuff? They get circulated within our groups every so often not the typical adviser. The Bramalea income levels? Were they Yeah, there's there's

Alan Smith:

there's several. There's a company that wants to meet springs to mind. I don't have I don't think we've got anything to do with them. But they publish it's called I think I'm correct saying be WD that's a name that springs to mind, like a check it off. But there's at least three who published this. I mean, I, you look at it, and you think I mean, it, certainly when we compare is something that I think we'd be happy to share with our team because it shows that we pay well. You know, I buy obviously, we're in London, London, that people are more, but the costs are more, et cetera. But there's some of these reports, I think BW D, or a recruitment company, which published this and it's regional dependency, and so they've got it all broken down for advisors, Senior Advisor, experienced Yeah, power plan. It's, it's a murky old world, when we get I often see things sent to us about you know, people from recruitment companies talking about got this paraplanner. And we've got our own definition, what a paraplanner. We call them associates, but it's to do with their qualifications and experience and everything else. But I think there are certain words that attract higher compensation, the higher remuneration, that otherwise might be somebody who's sort of currently studying for a diploma, for example, is earlier on in their career. In my experience, it isn't necessarily an experienced chartered level paraplanner who would command premium in terms of compensation so but it's quite good to have a rough look a lot of things in life. It's a rough guide, it's a rough benchmark, and then you but it's, if this is a if you're if you're if you're trying to get guys questions, anyway, trying to optimize find the perfect compensation model. It doesn't exist. You know, you try and test things, compare yourself with the market, but make sure there's a lot more, if you will. recruiting people presume is talking from a recruitment viewpoint, a lot more on your offering than just the money things. It's felt you're never going to win that just competing and paying the highest amount. It's probably pay a bit. Yeah. And

Carl Widger:

I think Alan to your, to your previous point, keep it simple. Like the ancillary benefits, everything that goes around the money, great, fantastic. Knock yourself out. But how people, when someone walks into this office here, I need to know immediately what their baggage is, as opposed to going out today, what did I agree here, which is how I used to do so I used to have, like different things all over the place for different people. Yeah, whereas now it's like, it's it's standard. Everybody knows, I know, they know. And it's easy for people to predict what they might make, if they you know, based on so keep it simple, keep it simple, keep it simple.

Alan Smith:

Keep it simple. I just can say that. nowadays. I mean, when I started, it was just, you know, basically yours paid salaries and stuff. But as we've grown and matured as a business, we've got a very comprehensive, you know, package in terms of quite, I would say big, much higher than the average, non contributory pension contributions, life insurance, death and service, private medical insurance, bunch a bunch of other stuff, which obviously, obviously is not on this on necessarily reflected on the amount you receive every month. So we're last few years we have this is something for people who've got running running firms, with teams, whatever their employees are, create a, what do we call it, like total benefit statement, you know, once a year, just say because if you say if you paid, let's say 5050 grand or something, but you look at an including, you know, even holidays, that not public holidays, but additional holidays we get and we get the no one works for us between Christmas and New Year. But that's actually that's a cost to the business of all those things, but you sort of add all those various aspects up. And from memory last time I looked is probably comfortably another 30% on top in terms of what the you know, how you're compensated or grown or think supported sometimes to remind people, there's not necessarily just the salary that you get after tax and your paycheck at the end of the month, or wherever it might be. So total total benefit statements are useful. Okay, today we have a point is he gone? Is he okay,

Nick Lincoln:

great stuff, I think Well, I think we're done on that really closing on that we and the hour Allen and myself now a member of this, this peer group that go to once a month and his firm are well known, well respected firm. They brought in bonus structures, no employee, employees sort of a share by bias the business and the staff were actually disappointed. They weren't at the levels they thought they were gonna get. It's like, you gotta be really careful about this kind of stuff. It can the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Okay, we're over. We're at 71 minutes and we've got another question in the hopper. Gents. Do we want to do this or do we want to move on to culture corner? Yeah, we just quickly thumb up ones give me a thumb down is that boy,

Alan Smith:

just just it's merely for you to guys? I think is it just whichever have a 90 minute limit on this was 71. We've got 90 minutes. Okay, so go Alright, okay,

Nick Lincoln:

that's it. That's what this one is from Benjamin Mitchell, who's on Twitter as at the money Scott. Benjamin says do the four horsemen of the apocalypse. The pile of trap never fails to provide the perfect mix of humor and value to ask me and multiple financial services professionals. Thanks for all the time you spend on this. Yeah, if only you knew it's really appreciated. And I've already taken so many things on that you said on board. This one is lightly aimed at Nick Anandi as one man band extraordinaire, there's how do you approach power planning as a small business owners? Do you outsource this? Or do it in house? And if so any experiences or tips to share thanks in advance? Ultra? Do you want to go first? You go first. Thank you. So my coming back to my that my three wins 2023 I gotta be I don't sound so grand as aggrandizing but I do run a pretty simple and elegant business. And I don't need a power planner. Can I say it out loud. I just do not need a power planner. So I don't use a power but most of my clients like my families, well, they're gonna go into a one or two preferred platforms. I know that I know what the investment solution is going to be for those clients because it's the same investment solution that I use. I take my own medicine. I don't chop and change clients once they're on a platform that sia they should be there for the rest of their lives. I don't do fun selection and all that crap. Stuff that perhaps power planners can definitely add value with. I don't mind writing your suitability report. I like writing suitability reports, my suitability reports are actually readable. And I think makes sense to Joe Public, which is the goal. So that's it. I don't do it. I don't do it then or Benjamin. I just don't think you need to do Do it as if you have a light. If you ever want member and lifestyle business, I don't think you need a power plant. Again, it's a bit like back office systems. I think they're a crutch I think you think you need to have them? Actually, I don't think you do you do your platform due diligence once a year, you don't need to do it for every client case. That's nonsense. You do it once a year. So that's a PowerPoint a job that doesn't need to be done. If you're not doing it every time. Yeah, that's, that's, I think you can do it, I think you can do it on your own Andrew,

Andy Hart:

I run a very similar business and Nick in terms of the outcome the clients get in terms of the offering platform, investment solutions, etc. But I do outsource my power panel of outsourcing or power planning, since I pretty much started even when I had no money coming in. So yeah, I do recommend getting a paraplanner there are a second brain to look at things and that there is quite a lot of value added to it. However, my counter intuitive advice in this space is find a non famous paraplanner famous power planners are spending a lot of time on social media and trade press. And then they get very busy. And then they start tripling their fees and their service gets terrible. There's lots of small power planning companies out there that nobody really knows about. But they sort of do come up on searches and you find them on LinkedIn, and they contact you. So my advice to someone starting out is find a non famous power planner, when you find one, you know, bottle it, we will study it, you know that they're very rare. And don't tell anyone who they are. So I don't tell anyone who the power planner is I use if I mentioned it on here, they would have 100 new clients by the morning, their fees would quadruple they'd forget about me and their service would hit the floor. So my recommendation is find a non-famous paraplanner there's loads of them out there really really good independent firms and work with them have a couple of cases trial with them. And then once you like them, stay with them for a long time. So that's my my advice back to you Nick.

Alan Smith:

That the generous Andy Hart what is paraplanner to be successful

Unknown:

at all no charge.

Carl Widger:

I hope you find that very helpful.

Andy Hart:

Trust me people thank me about that in the past thanks only for telling me since I've gone away from a famous power planning company, the

Alan Smith:

wardrobe. I heard a steep a phrase the other day and I just thought of a thought of Maven immediately. Andy Hart often wrong. never in doubt.

Andy Hart:

Exactly. Thank you. I'll be on my gravestone

Nick Lincoln:

I'll also know tombstone will be my IKEA wardrobe is it's more than a wardrobe it's a friend

Unknown:

right this is best friend is wardrobe

Carl Widger:

I thought that was his car.

Nick Lincoln:

No it's whatever is suddenly in his head at that moment

Unknown:

as I watched as well he's got somebody friends leave him he's got a call suffering is suffering with suffering with flu

Nick Lincoln:

76 minutes for a 76 minutes let's move on to come to pray this drop works. Haul keto Okey, so this would be a good culture corner thing on its own an app or website called Good Reads. If like me you're a bit of a sad and you'd like to store all the books you've read on the you read them in and how you rated them and tag them. Goodreads is a really good free site to doing that. I read 26 books in 2023 my best year was 2019 when I read 41 Why do you care? You don't care. 26 books last year. My top books from last year were unreasoned. There are links to all of these in several Show Notes unreasonable hospitality by Wilker, there excellent about service and bedding service at every level of a business to give clients just a wow. Feeling the bet between the cretinous Paul Ehrlich and Julian Simon at the start of the 1970s Ehrlich, the essential prophet of doom has always wrong said we're going to run out of commodities. People are going to die in their millions. And this economist called Julian Simon said, You're wrong, we'll have a better net at the end of the 1980s or 1970s. Rather, Simon had one hands down early, it was wrong about everything. Why is that important to you as a real financial adviser because you need to be reinforcing optimism and people's lives. Alright, and you need to know who your enemies are and people like Paul Ehrlich are the enemy. I'm asked by Dan Solon really an updated version of how to win friends and influence people but really, really good. And I guess my final book will be the Elon Musk biography by Walter Isaacson. Whatever you think of musk it's a really, really good read warts and all I know that voice has read it Ultra, you've read it as well. I think I've done the file and, you know, all of us have well worth reading. If only again, whenever you think about it, it's good. You need to know about him because he is an important player in our lives. Whether you like that or not, so those are my culture corners. Mr. Smith that big. I'm not allowed to say what it is because Andrew gets upset. What's your culture corner?

Alan Smith:

Big George Foreman. You're bringing things back down to Earth after someone's who's reached 41 books in a year. There's a this is a film which came out last year, it's now free on Sky think I watched it over the holidays. super inspirational. So I grew up in the generation with George Foreman of that era with the you know, the Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, you know, arguably the best era ever and heavyweight boxing. And he became world champion is you know, his backstory is really, really tough. And against the odds, he became world champion, he fought in the famous Rumble in the Jungle with Muhammad Ali and last and then practically stopped after that became a preacher. The whole thing is just a fascinating journey of this real life person who then 20 years later that this is our this is not sharing the call, don't worry about me giving away their the story. This is public information that anyone should know about. But 20 years later, he had because he needed to get some make some money again, he goes back into the ring. And guess what, arguably one of the most sensational sporting moments in history in any sports when he became world champion again, 20 years later in his 40s. I like films which are really uplifting, positive and inspirational. And you come away from that almost with a tear in your eye thinking. That's incredible. That is fantastic. And the guy is still he's in his 70s now and he's still going strong and Oh, another thing is all the money he made from his famous George Foreman grill has a sort of side quote. So what

Carl Widger:

I was gonna say I hope eventually it's bloody awesome. Yeah, we use a lot of words over Christmas.

Alan Smith:

He apparently he made more money from that than he ever made all the millions. Yeah. More money. The George Foreman grill. Yeah, the

Andy Hart:

people. The people that made the grill wanted Hulk Hogan originally, in the left a message on his aunt's phone, he never got back to him. So they called the second person in line. So it should be called the whole COVID role. But how it was too busy though, wherever he was doing. So that's the best phone call that George the Hawks needs for George from talking about sporting excellence. It was amazing that Luke littler won the darts championships two nights ago. Or last night. Hang on.

Alan Smith:

Did he win it? I thought he's got to the final has it happened?

Andy Hart:

This is this is Thursday. Alan. It's amazing. Oh, ice. Last thing.

Alan Smith:

What if you're wrong, Andrew make the prediction. Making prediction? Is

Andy Hart:

is an absolute inspiration.

Nick Lincoln:

Right back on planet Earth. Yeah, watch Netflix. Blue sense. Oh, now said what you're gonna say sorry, Andy.

Carl Widger:

No, a lot. I need you to say because I always forget what I put in there. Yes, it does. I can't even remember what it's called. But it's if you just Google the blue zones on Netflix, it's about the day five areas in the world where they have more Centurions than anywhere else. And it's it's perfect viewing for this time of the year when you're all thinking about your new healthy you as I am just about the thing that comes out of this, you know, they talk about diets and blah, blah, blah. They're all pretty small communities. And they all have massive social connection and they're all kind of in it together. So don't be trying to do anything on your own. Go and find your buddies and do stuff with your buddies. That seems to keep people alive much longer than anything else. And they all have a glass of wine pretty much so that's not urging Yeah, we

Alan Smith:

should live forever then for occasional glass of wine

Nick Lincoln:

locked down period now since I've just just no other life doesn't but that's why it's caused so much damage because we are social animals and it was it was denied us for that period of time. Ultra

Unknown:

true.

Andy Hart:

Okay, so this is a podcast recommendation. Listen on YouTube or your podcast of choice is Alain de Botton bottle, who's the founder of school of life. It's on Diary of a CEO podcast. It's called the love expert. The real reason we are lonely, loveless and depressed and the title doesn't do it justice. This guy is he's a philosopher. He's amazing. Do check it out have massive strong recommendation. Certainly if you're married in a relationship in that whole space. It's absolutely brilliant. Do do check it out.

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, great stuff. I think I think we've managed to make it to the end of another episode of trap haven't we? We've got at the end of episode 36 We're at three minutes in that's that's more than enough value for money for our beloved TRAPPIST audience. Yeah, Let's put a wrap on this. Let's tie a bow on it. We've emptied our vows and another pile of trap has slipped down the U bend of time. Thank you dear trapeze for your precious time. Please do leave a review on iTunes six out of five stars would be nice. Remember to subscribe on your podcast app of choice that way you get a freshly baked episode in the early hours of every other Thursday morning, like and subscribe to our burgeoning YouTube channel so you can look at our glorious physiologies But until then, take care out there. And we'll see you next time. Adios.

Andy Hart:

See you later. Bye.

Carl Widger:

I've been here

Alan Smith:

absolute shambles. That's a new add to your vows.

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Nick Lincoln

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Alan Smith

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Andy Hart

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Carl Widger

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