63 - We Need To Talk About Trump

TRAP LIVE25 - 14TH MAY. REGISTER INTEREST HERE: http://www.therealadviserpodcast.com

In this latest pile of TRAP, the Trap Pack discuss

• Topical Titbits including Deepseek, GIA CGT ruses, charging for initial meetings, millionaires fleeing UK, Carl’s 3rd Act, digital wills, DB pension surpluses, Tax Freedom Day, Tax List 2005, Voyant User Group 21st March tickets here: https://vug25.eventbrite.co.uk/
• Meat and Potatoes: We Need To Talk About Trump
• TRAPist question(s) from Jamie Cook www.twitter.com/jamiecook1997 and Chris Bowmer https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbowmer/

Show links: http://tiny.cc/traplinks

============================
TRAP LIVE25 - 14TH MAY. PUT THE DATE IN YOUR DIARY! Click here to register your interest.
============================
Take part in the conversation! We want YOU to suggest topics and questions you’d like the Trap Pack to answer. The best way to do this is to ask them here.

Help us to help you! The more followers we have, the more we can do stuff going forward. So please:

• Subscribe and Like our YouTube Channel
• Leave a 6/5 star review on iTunes
• Share TRAP with your peers and colleagues
• 'Enjoy' the Twitter chat at @AdviserPodcast.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:08

Music, welcome to the real advisor podcast, T, R, A, P, trap. Please follow us and join in the conversation on Twitter at advisor podcast, where you can suggest ideas and themes you'd like the trap team to discuss. Also remember to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave a six out of five star review on iTunes. Doing all this really, really helps us, which means we can do more to help you. Now, let's head over to the studio for the latest pile of trap you music,

Nick Lincoln: 0:43

yes, indeed, dear TRAPPIST, welcome back to what many people are calling episode 63 of the real advisor podcast, T, R, A, P, Trapp. My name is indeed Lincoln, and joining me as ever in the digital studio of doom are the three other Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Carl della vocci, the voice widget and the ultra heart and Alan the story teller. Smith, Now, gentlemen, we have a show packed full of app, absolutely nothing. So let's start unpacking it straight away with some more high energy review reads, read out by my very good friend the right honorable Mr. Andrew

Andy Hart: 1:19

Hart, we're breaking new ground today. We have three the first one is from arsenal for Eva. Six out of five stars. This podcast is an excellent resource for the financial planning community. The camaraderie between the four chaps shines through, and it's a relaxed way to really get into the nuts and bolts of full fat financial planning. As someone who sits on the more analytical side of the industry, being able to gain a deeper in, a deeper insight into clients needs is invaluable. Thank you all, and keep up the good work. The next review from stag man six, also entitled, six out of five stars. I wonder where he got that from. Absolutely love this podcast. Please keep them coming. I've been an advisor for 11 years, and the content shared this podcast has been invaluable. Real life stories and experiences, together with banter and laughs. Final review one of your fellow countrymen on machine, Allen Hamish Monroe, entitled fantastic as a relatively new entrant and second careerist, the podcast is invaluable. Plenty of takeaways from every episode and plenty of cutting through the proverbial rubbish this profession, this profession gets embroiled in decades of stories, ups and downs, jingles and close personal friends make it an engaging listen back to you. Nicholas, wow, wow, aren't

Nick Lincoln: 2:28

they lovely reviews. Thanks a lot. Trappist we really appreciate and do keep them coming in. Six out of five stars, of course, is a mandatory, right? Let's, let's. And Carlos, for those watching cars glugging from the very, very special trap mugs, which I've got boxes of in the garage,

Unknown: 2:44

can't get rid of them,

Nick Lincoln: 2:45

which I can't which I'll be giving away at trap live, maybe, which, of course, is coming up in May. Is it may the 14th? I should have prep. This is May the 14th. I think we're Trappist. We're gradually getting our act together, and the tickets will be going on sale shortly. So watch out the one on one channels, LinkedIn, Twitter. You'll be emailed as well if you've signed up to register your interest, and the link to do that will be in the so called show notes. But yeah, may the 14th, cannot wait. Things are coming to a head, and we're still friends in the trap pack, so everything is good. Okay, let's put a topical timestamp on, yes, marginal. Let's put a topical timestamp on episode 63 of the real advisor podcast. Oh, Smith, you're gonna talk about AI

Alan Smith: 3:26

Alan's infatuation.

Nick Lincoln: 3:28

AI, yeah, I've

Alan Smith: 3:31

kind of pivoted what I was going to talk about a little bit on the back of the breaking news out of China. I think it's worth it's worth mentioning in passing, if nothing else, as it relates to because I do think this has a significant impact. Well, it's already having a big impact on our firm, and having it will have a bigger impact. Yeah, deep seek came out of China. Well, it's been around for a couple of years, but a big, sort of formal launch with their latest version of the of their AI modeling tools and platform. And the way, you know, I as is, as is obvious, I am no expert, but I kind of dabble around the edges. And as someone described to me, what this new technology we're familiar with, open AI and chat, GPT and the various Google versions and etc. But all of a sudden, the the cost of this has just gone down by 90% so the analogy someone gave me the other day is like, imagine you can get a new iPhone for 100 pounds instead of 1000 pounds, or a new Tesla for three grand or five grand, or something like that. Not quite as good as the mainstream model yet, but it's a a 10th of the price. That's interesting, and that has, that has a significant impact, potentially, for those of us who are trying to embrace some of the technology within our financial planning businesses. I've already had a chat with one of our sort of AI partners on this, and they're, they're pretty excited about it, saying there's going to be a significant impact this stuff. They can move far. Faster. They can move cheaper. They could embed tools and processes within financial planning practices. So I think the speed at which things are going to change now is really going to is going to heat up, and things going to move forward a lot faster. I won't go into it. Now, we are using this staff daily, and it's it's making a significant impact in our business. And lastly, I will be speaking about this at the name of it, empowering advisors, empowering advice through technology conference, which is all day the day this year, today, today, this podcast comes out, and that is a conference which I've often thought about going for one reason or another, didn't go to in the past, but it's a tech it's a tech conference. And I was going to say, anyone else going? And turns out, Mrs. Hart, why? Why are you going? Andrew, as a matter of interest, is it very interesting? You normally go? You weren't.

Andy Hart: 5:55

No, first I'm going to go. There is a load of interesting tech companies speaking. Yeah, looking forward to

Alan Smith: 6:02

it. Okay, I'll see you later today. Then, Andrew,

Unknown: 6:05

yes, I'll see you soon.

Alan Smith: 6:06

Alan, yeah, that's it. Move on.

Nick Lincoln: 6:10

Okay, thank you. Good luck with the you're speaking there. Aren't you. Alan, I've muted

Alan Smith: 6:16

myself because I'm trying to be efficient. I am speak well, I kind of would you call it a call a plenary. What's that word mean? Plenty. Is it

Unknown: 6:24

fireside chats? The B side? It's like, yeah,

Andy Hart: 6:30

side, no, no. I think he's actually on the mainstream car. He's on the mainstream. Yes, I was joking. Sorry, yeah,

Alan Smith: 6:37

yeah, yeah, I am. I'm a key I'm a keynote speaker.

Nick Lincoln: 6:41

You're definitely something. Okay, let's move on to the next thing on the on the agenda. So, yeah, this might not be news to the TRAPPIST out there. Listen to this, but it's kind of news to me. I just doing a general investment account transfer from one provider to another, this client that I'm rescuing from her previous advisor, and because it's a GIA and it's got pregnant capital gains, you do it in specie intact, don't you? That's the way to do it, okay, which I've done, what I didn't realize was that you as the advisor, have the ability to tell the receiving scheme what the acquisition cost of each line of stock is, which effectively means you have control over how much capital gain is going to be calculated. As and when you when you sell. So it just really surprised me that that you can do this. Because I can only imagine that some advisors, in the past, some unscrupulous advisors, perhaps, have put in false figures for the acquisition costs, thereby wiping out any pregnant gains. And no one checks up on this. And it to me, it just seems like a real loop. I'm really surprised. I don't know. Surprised. I don't know why the seeding scheme doesn't tell the receiving scheme what the acquisition cost is, because they've got that information. I've got, I've got the information on the client file, so it must be gained, especially now with the CGT exemption down to 3/5 and it's, it's so piddly, and can get wiped out by one or two, you know, a good day on the market, and can wipe that exemption out. So, um, yeah, just, just strike me some real loophole.

Andy Hart: 8:03

I did think there'll be some sort of fee between the investment platforms and the revenue, but since you've highlighted this, I'm thinking there's less joined up thinking with this, I've done clients, yeah, transfer a shed load of lines across 60 lines of, you know, financial mess, and then you try to get the client to get the client to give me a spreadsheet, and then I'd put it all on it, and then I plot it into transact, and then you're right. Then I trigger a sale, and hopefully it's strategically within the CGT limits. I thought it was a bit more joined up thinking from the platforms then to produce some reporting data to the revenue. But I don't think, I don't think there is the more. I think it can be game. A lot of people do trigger CGT small amounts and small pots and don't report it, because they're just going to open up a whole can of mess, aren't they? But, yeah, it's interesting this, but

Alan Smith: 8:51

it relies on this. You know, self disclosure, doesn't it? Like a lot of things, does? You know, self assessment, you know, assuming a voluntary club, so you're so voluntary, and I've often thought about that. I mean, we're just that they were all due to pay our taxes tomorrow, or I am anyway. And he does. And I do remember some years, many, many years ago, there was a client, sort of prospective client, and he had second property, second or third properties, and he thought, well, I'm going to sell them, just not tell anyone about it. And I thought, okay, good luck. But I do, I do believe that that that the land registry is some is now, that that system is the

Andy Hart: 9:27

lawyers have got title on that now the CGT needs to be paid within six weeks after a second property sold used to be ages at the end of the tax year, nine months after. Yeah, I think

Alan Smith: 9:37

so. Yeah, you're right, Nick, you probably can game the system, but the consequences of doing that and getting tripped up are not worth it. I wouldn't have thought

Carl Widger: 9:46

budged. There's a similar issue here in that Do you remember I've spoken before about exit taxes payable here in Ireland at 41% after eight years for on on funds and the what has apparently happened? It is some of the maybe the platform providers, maybe the insurance companies. If someone is paying on a monthly basis, or somebody has paid money in and then topped it up and then taken money back out and then topped it back up that they're all kind of going, hmm, we don't really know how to track this. We don't really know exactly how to calculate the tax and when the tax should be due, because think about if you put in 100 grand and your taxes due after eight years, and then the following year you put another 100 grand in, right? Okay, that's a straightforward enough example, but there's all sorts of complexities. Can start happening if there's withdrawals in the meantime and then you top back up or whatever. So there is some work been done, I know for sure on the simplifying of the tax of funds and bringing more in line with C CGT, but that's a perfect example where you know, with the best will in the world that the self might not be able to self appraise their tax liabilities because you just don't have the Have the have the information to hand, plus the insurance companies are supposed to pay that tax on your behalf to the revenue for you, and whether they have the information correct or otherwise, is up for grabs. So, yeah, interesting. And again, it doesn't. It doesn't kind of go back to stop meddling with this stuff, stop changing it around and having a long term strategy. Yeah. I mean, we're like, broken down records of this, but that's what works here. That's what allows people to plan their finances, and you know, in the long term, to be comfortable that they're that they're planning appropriately for for everything, including their tax liabilities.

Andy Hart: 11:38

Maybe when the CGT allowance was a lot higher. They were less bothered about in UK, and less people got caught up by it because it's so low. Now they might be a bit more on the front foot with it. But again, I don't know if the platforms are being told to disclose more information, but we will see. Yeah, I

Nick Lincoln: 11:53

don't think it's and obviously, you know, with life insurance bonds, the chargeable events certificate is issued to the the client is cash is a lot more. Then also to HMRC, they get automatically. I don't know about it. Okay, so on to the next thing on the agenda. And storyteller, first meeting charges

Alan Smith: 12:10

just, I thought was quite interesting. Friend of the podcast, all around good egg. Phil Bray, yard stick marketing specialist, posted something on LinkedIn recently, which I saw, you know, a poll asking people to feedback, and it was all about, do you charge prospective clients for the first meeting? And I thought, Hmm, okay, interesting. I responded to it saying, no, yeah. And there was, but there was, I mean, there was a minority, but it was above zero in terms of the people who said, Yes, of course, we do. It's valuable. We deliver a lot of value during that conversation. And it's also a bit odd not to charge for it. There was a few I thought from me initially dismissing it as what a silly idea. I'm all about playing the long game. I don't want to put any road bumps in the way of that initial conversation. I thought that is quite interesting. So I'm going to say other professionals will charge for it. Sometimes this person can't remember who it was, responded say, I've ended a meeting. It's been an hour and a half. It's a material allocation of time. And these clients have said, well, what do I owe you? So he felt was only natural that he would just charge it a reasonable fee for that time and the advice and the information that also shows that they're serious. I just thought it's an interesting conversation. I guess none of you, you three charge for

Carl Widger: 13:27

question. Alan, is this just for an initial kind of phone

Unknown: 13:31

call, chat?

Alan Smith: 13:33

Yeah, structured as a meeting. It's an initial not delivering, okay, this is a first meeting, and probably you might be able to solve at least at a high level, you know, what should I do about this? What should I do about that? You know, this is not advice, but this is what you can in other words, you can add value in an hour or an hour and a half conversation, significant value. And it's, you know, there's only so many hours in the day or the week, and it's, yeah, just general, you know, the people that were saying you would do charge for it, just they had, you know, I think that to some degree, they had a valid point. But I just yeah,

Carl Widger: 14:08

I'd be inclined not to. And I'd also been trying to use that one to, you know, to interview the client, also, as much as the client is interviewing you. So absolutely,

Andy Hart: 14:18

yeah, I see a whole heap of mess with this. Let's say they charge. Keep it simple. I charge 250 pound for the initial meeting. I'm then obliged to have, let's say, a full hour when I may or may not want to. Likewise them, I've got to produce an invoice. They're now an official client of my regulated firm three months down the line. And so, you know that initial call we had Andy that that thing's working. It's not now that funds a whole host of mess. So I'm more than happy to give them as much wisdom as I can with as many questions as they can give me. I'm happy to do that ad valorem, or, you know, pro bono. If they're a serious client of mine, they fit my sweet spot, then I'm happy to move forward entire Latin,

Nick Lincoln: 14:53

your entire Latin vocabulary, in one sentence.

Unknown: 14:57

Pro bono. What's

Andy Hart: 14:59

your decorum? Less pro patron. I just see, I just see so many problems. So many times, clients have said, I don't mind paying for it, and you've had the meeting I want to pay you. And there's no chance. There's no chance I'm sending you an invoice at 200 quid. Yeah, mine is my corporation tax minus my I end up with like 50. There's no point in doing it.

Nick Lincoln: 15:15

Yeah, yeah. And I read the comments in that LinkedIn post by by Phil, and there's some the good thing it does weed out the muckers. That's one thing you know, you're not going to get people just kicking the tires, but depends on the business. I you know, as you guys learn, as the TRAPPIST probably know by now, because I go on about it, but my the prospects I get are all referred by existing clients, right? So I know they're going to be a kind of fear, and they've already been kind of partly sold on me. So I'm not, I don't really get the muckers. So I don't. That wouldn't help. I just think we've got to give it a little just give some back. Give give away the universe, and

Andy Hart: 15:43

you get things back. Do you think the referrers sell you Nick? I do. You know what

Nick Lincoln: 15:47

make me cringe? They probably said, Listen, this guy's All right, he's a bit weird. That's kind of what they say.

Unknown: 15:54

Just he knows his financial point. Yeah, it's a bit odd. Strong views.

Nick Lincoln: 16:02

It's a bit odd. He's the reason we've ever dealt with but he's all right,

Unknown: 16:07

John, try to change his mind on anything, right? Yeah, all right. Let's

Nick Lincoln: 16:13

move on to the next thing on the agenda, which is a couple of items of bad news, I'm afraid. And this will tie in, I think, to the meat and potatoes when we get to it. But we just got to talk about this, because it does so this, because it does. And I think Andy might have mentioned this in a previous episode, but I'm reading from an article that came out a week or so ago, from on the standard that more than 10 million millionaires have left Britain in the last 10,000 Nick 10, sorry, 10,000 millionaires have left Britain the past year. That's a staggering figure. And the figure of the previous year, 2023 was 4200 so it's actually near, it's near 11,000 millionaires. And just a desperate, a desperate stat, when you think the top 1% of earners in the UK pay 30% of the tax, the top 5% of earners pay half the tax in the UK. Just

Andy Hart: 17:01

a straight from that slide, straight from that slide.

Nick Lincoln: 17:04

Oh, it's just and then the other the second article was kind of links in with that as well as, and this was from January 25 and there are links to these and everything we talk about TRAPPIST, there are links to the source material in the so called show notes. But UK job cuts surged to highest since, highest pace since financial crisis following Reeves tax hike. So we've got millionaires fleeing and job job cuts just left, right and center, Sainsbury's cutting people. Now, there might be various myriad reasons for that. It won't just be down to the budget, but I mean, it's just a just a whole shit out there at the minute, isn't it? In terms of business,

Alan Smith: 17:37

you see the data, businesses closing down and q4 2024. Was at the highest rate since

Unknown: 17:44

2008 and businesses in trouble as well. Yeah,

Nick Lincoln: 17:48

yeah. Solvencies are at a record. Yeah, clipping along that record, right? Yeah.

Unknown: 17:53

Have anything to do with this? Or no,

Nick Lincoln: 17:55

ask Nick No, no, no. Thankfully, we're out of that, because Germany's in this recession proper, full on recession, and there is no serious economy in the E apart from Germany, but thanks for the reference. Car, okay,

Carl Widger: 18:06

anyway, I, I'm sending thoughts and prayers your way, guys. Thank

Nick Lincoln: 18:11

you coming your way in the potty article, it

Andy Hart: 18:14

said most of the millionaires are making their way to Limerick. Car, so every cloud, yep,

Nick Lincoln: 18:20

they're going to liberate

Andy Hart: 18:22

so we're second with the second country in, sorry, the second country in the whole world. We're second to China. China. China lost more. China lost more millionaires. Enough. That's just they've got a few more than that, 1 billion of them becoming new minted millionaires. So

Unknown: 18:40

I want to know whether

Andy Hart: 18:42

going to Dubai. It's a mix. Some of it was Italy, Spain were mentioned, America was mentioned and Dubai was mentioned.

Carl Widger: 18:50

The UK seems to be like the rah, rah re, let's go these days, doesn't it? Or

Andy Hart: 18:57

not? No percent income tax, 9% corporation tax, sunny, etc, yeah,

Unknown: 19:04

yeah, you're going nick the etc. I will

Nick Lincoln: 19:07

never, I will never go to that part of the book. Ever. Never say never, ever, okay, wise bring us some good news. Oh, I like this. I watched this. This was very good car. Very good mate. Yeah.

Carl Widger: 19:19

So, been kicking this idea around for a long time. I tend to do that kick ideas around for a long time before I actually execute on them. But we I did finally execute on this one. I thought that doing some kind of longer form interviews, not too long, but maybe a half an hour thereabouts, with some of our clients whose say, stories I find very interesting, and to talk to them about their background and where they've come from, where they are now, and where they want to go. And we're kind of calling it, not kind of, I am calling it the third act series. So it's about, you know, well, you're maybe preparing yourself for the for the midfield. 50s, 60, mid 60s, that, and onwards, that, that kind of leg of your life, shall we say? And look, everyone's story is when you actually sit down and just ask people to talk. It's so bloody interesting. And I have to credit Alan here, because it does. Alan kind of come from your idea of interviewing your dad, right kind of stuff. So I suppose made it a little bit more commercial than potentially your idea of you your debt. Yeah, no, and I will, but I suppose this is from this is, you know, asking people their stories, and then asking what impact has financial planning had on you and your family? So this one was with Brendan ring. Brendan is a very good, close personal friend of mine. He's a very good friend of mine. And Brendan has an inspiring story, because Brendan is a successful entrepreneur, but he's also the founder, thanks, founder of cleanest foundation. Oh,

Alan Smith: 21:00

yeah. So that is, that was that part of you? I didn't know that was your client stories thing, yeah. I met, I met him. He's, yeah,

Carl Widger: 21:08

yeah. And so his daughter unfortunately passed away, and he's, he co founded leanest foundation with his wife, Terry. And you know, what about you know, what a mission that man is on. But he's just an inspiring guy, and I love spending time with him. So I said, You know what, this would be ideal to kind of launch the series. So look, it's on our YouTube channel. I don't know where this is going, other than I have four or five or six more lined up to do. My plan is to do 12 this year, do one a month, and put just put it out in YouTube for now. We may turn them into podcasts, I don't know. So, because Andy asked earlier on, what's this? And I was like, I don't actually really know yet, other than I think it's a good idea. And look, I the reason I'm sharing it here is two things. I'd love people to subscribe and watch and tell me what they think, but I do think every financial planning firm could do this, and I think it's a fabulous way of displaying your work, right? So ask your own clients to tell their story and tell, you know, simple

Nick Lincoln: 22:07

but for launching what on for sure. Yeah, it looks it looks super slick. Look. Look really good. I mean, if you're doing you might, if you're doing the video, and you've got the video now down, because it looks really good, just do the podcast, man, you've got the audio then not, obviously, not you. But get someone who's who, who's vaguely competent in the organizations to the podcast? Why would you not? Yeah, yeah. And

Carl Widger: 22:26

look, we there was no editing at all in that. That was a one take. That was a sit down. Sinead is in the corner of the room basically do work in her magical skills on the audio and the video and all of that. And opposite us, I had kind of, broadly speaking, the four or five questions that I was going to ask, right? That's it. There was no rehearsal, no nothing. Brendan arrived in late. I gave out to him. He went, Oh, calm down. It'll be grand. And we just, we just press, we just, we just pressed record, and just started chatting. And it was amazing. Now, look, it's really easy when you're talking to someone like Brendan, because I went, Brennan, tell us your story. Brennan, tell us your story, right? And if someone is like, gives you four or five sentences about, you know, when I live down the road there, that it's not

Alan Smith: 23:09

gonna be good. You've gotta, you've gotta be selective of who you

Unknown: 23:13

went into stuff that I never knew about him. You know, this is awesome.

Andy Hart: 23:20

You can also, obviously put that on your website. Carl, of course, yeah, like you can repurpose it if

Unknown: 23:25

you

Alan Smith: 23:26

should call this is, I've said this long about podcasting in general, every financial planner in the country should have a podcast, even if the only people who are ever going to listen to it or watch it are their clients, their existing clients. People want to know the part of a community, part of a club. They go, Oh, I didn't know they have a client. So that's got an interesting story for the as we're proving, it's not that difficult to create a podcast. You get on a on a screen, you have a you could use. Was great, obviously, because it's video and film and in person, which is a different level, and it's worth doing that for clients. But even if you just did it something like this on a zoom call or Riverside, and had a 1520 minute, I think it was better than

Andy Hart: 24:02

were in a studio called that's a studio that you've got your office, isn't it? Yeah, try and use it for as much as you can. Mate. It's

Carl Widger: 24:09

brilliant. Yeah, no, we are. And look, that's a limerick. So we're trying to get people from Dublin said to come to him will be a challenge in itself. But look, we'll get there. But, but genuinely, I would say everyone should do this, right? Because everyone has loads of interesting people that they've done great work for it, you know, in terms of financial planning. And get those stories are really interesting, get them out there. And,

Alan Smith: 24:29

yeah, I agree with Carl, but I would just say on this, there's quite a few advisors have got videos of clients on their website, but they're totally pushing the advisor. What, you know, what was your life like before you met us? And how stories don't they? Yeah, how much memory? Advice to me, centric, this is a whole thing that people need to understand. Actually, I've mentioned before, I think there's a culture corner. The story, brand stuff, you make your clients the hero, and your future prospective clients are here. You're a hero. They don't that doesn't matter what people want and your future prospective clients, they want to know. Who else you work with that was their story. What's their background? How can you they were assuming you know what you're talking about. You don't need to do a big I am. We're amazing, aren't we one?

Carl Widger: 25:09

I think the third or fourth question is, what? What difference has financial planning made for you and your family, right? But, but it's, you know, you can,

Alan Smith: 25:16

you can put a few or one or two little things in that, but the real thing is that person's journey, and this story, of course, Brendan's got, you know, a sad one, but Brendan's,

Carl Widger: 25:27

Brendan's one of Brandon's big points is, you know, he's because of, I suppose, his sad story is he's going to live the life that he wants to live right now, right? And he's always going, you know, on a reference to a hot, hot balloons, balloon

Nick Lincoln: 25:49

angle devices.

Unknown: 25:52

They've just made their way to Ireland,

Carl Widger: 25:56

Portugal. But it was like, you know, I'm doing this and I'm we're doing this trip. He's going and he's rocking it now. And it's like, you know, they do love that in Marrakech. I think that's bloody brilliant. That is bloody brilliant. Ever been on one? Sorry, no way, a basket. I've

Nick Lincoln: 26:16

been in the goody of blimp, you know, the Goodyear Blimp that back in 1984 that, I can't remember how it crashed. Well, my dad organized, my brother and my dad, but I can't, yeah, that was a, that was a thing. It's a massive thing, massive structure. Yeah, luckily, I didn't know about the lead Zeppelin before I went up in the buddy thing. It was good. It was fine. Okay, well, that's excellent cars. That's really, I mean, I definitely should

Unknown: 26:42

you have a clap. Nick with the older jingles? No, we've given him

Nick Lincoln: 26:45

enough praise verbally. He's on verb on best times. Okay? Storyteller, digital wills. Wow. Ruckus. Rock us. Come on.

Alan Smith: 26:53

Well, listen, did you? Did you know that the wills as we're talking about the UK? No idea what's in Ireland for the original wills. Act is from Victorian era, not 1837 I do know. And so all these rules pertain to them are, you have to have wet signatures. You have to have it signed by somebody, I kind of, I think, in person or something. Yeah, it's all that stuff. It's a very archaic system, considering we're in the 21st century. Now, there is a bill going through Parliament right now, which should be signed off in the spring, which will, for the first time ever, allow digital wills. So you can create these things online and using sort of modern technology called, you know, Blockchain type things, where you know, if there's ever been any amendments or changes, you can update it. But the kind of the entire history, you know, people have lost their wills, or people have been accused of changing their wheels based. So now you can create, or in the spring, you'll be able to create these, these digital versions, like

Unknown: 27:47

one digit missing that completely invalidated.

Alan Smith: 27:51

I mean, honestly, and even You've mentioned a thing, and you know, I can't remember us on this podcast, you certainly shared with me in the past a few others, a few kind of quasi digital, but you still have to download. You still have to down paper, get somebody to sign it in ink, everything. Well, yeah, as I say, very soon these digital things will be available. The I had a call with the founder of a new business called Ideas life, a, d, e, u, s life. Ideas life.com link to their website is in the so called show notes, ideas. And I just think it's a really interesting, innovative process in that, I don't know about you, we always tell our clients, update their wheels, even get a will done. You know, you've had situation, situation with the client. You got a will? You go, yep. When was it done? Oh, 22 years ago. You've had four kids since then, there's nothing

Unknown: 28:41

you know exactly, and

Alan Smith: 28:44

a mistress, and people just in their head to go, yeah, got will just but it's completely hopeless. Fact, in fact, who someone else was talking to recently, really complicated situation, which I won't share with but it didn't change the wheel. Got divorced, got a new partner for years and stuff. And the, you know, the ex wife is still listed on the wheel anyway. One of the reasons that that occurs is because there's a lot of friction. There's just as just a lot of admin and hassle as people all do that next week. So this digital Do

Andy Hart: 29:11

you actually know, Alan, if this changes coming in, because impact everything, 50 businesses that are going to get into this space, it's going to be overloaded, is what I'm saying.

Alan Smith: 29:22

Well, correct, there is this. This is what I'm told. Nick Toby, the founder of a DS story, he's, they're the only firm, obviously he would say this, but obviously others will come in. Every law firm in the country should have, will have a version of this. It is, it is expected to pass, get Royal Assent in, a thing April from Okay, so it might drag on, but this, it might drag a bit. It will be. Another thing is it's, there's a lot less cost. I mean, they're offering, well, obviously, if you've got a really complicated lifestyle, and you do have, you know, like you boys, have got three ex wives, two mistresses and multiple children, then you know, digital one might not stop projecting. I. Yeah, but it might not work, but for the for a bit of sort of straightforward situations, it will really, I mean, I want to say about 90 quid or something, so super cheap store, online, digital vault, and all your other kind of stuff. Anyway, it is interesting and worth, you know, subscribing to their the providing a lot of information on that website, so it's good for us to know about, because it's relevant for our clients.

Nick Lincoln: 30:23

Okay, that is good news. Thank you. Storyteller. Okie dokie, so, ah, things are changing at transact,

Andy Hart: 30:30

yeah, just a very brief mention about this. Jonathan Gunby, who is the leaving CEO. He's going to be retiring this year. He spent 40 years in financial services, one of the good eggs. He joined the mighty transact in 2011 when they had 10 billion AUM funds under management. Now they got close to 6070, he's been a big champion of not skimming off cash, which has been a great thing for the profession. Yeah, and he's retiring, basically, and we have the new guy who is going to be taking over him, over from him, can't get his name. Was his name Tom Dunbar, who's busy company for a while. He spoke at the latest transact event. Great company. Me and Nick use them quite a lot, and I'm uses them bit now. They're doing some good stuff, and they support us lots of other advisors. They're a very, I believe, ethical firm and what everything they do anyway. So new change of change of the CEO. They're still FTSE 250 they're working their way to FTSE 100 but they've got to sort of get the skates on to get to that market cap. So yeah, very brief mention. I've spoken to Jonathan quite a bit. He's a good guy, so yeah. And what's this service in your

Nick Lincoln: 31:42

retirement?

Alan Smith: 31:44

What's Gumby with an N? Gunby,

Nick Lincoln: 31:46

gun G u n, b y, not B, G U N, yeah, yeah. Then yeah, Jonathan did one, did one panel discussion with me, and then retiring?

Alan Smith: 31:55

Is it retiring? Oh

Unknown: 31:56

yeah, that was, that was car crash. Okay,

Nick Lincoln: 31:59

just he's just leaving the whole profession. He's just walking away. Great CEO. Okay, no, yeah, great company. Thank you. All right. Oh yes. This is the latest brainchild from our our elected betters. And this is not, it's not a new idea. This was an idea first floated by Robert Maxwell about 40 years ago. Rachel Reeves has floated in the idea that pension scheme dB, pension schemes that are in surplus, the sponsoring companies, can access these surplus funds for whatever they want to invest and so forth, which sounds to me like, and that was a joke about, obviously, Robert Maxwell did that back in the late 80s, early 1990s um, just quick sides. Rob a friend of my dad, passed away last week. Rest in peace, Dave, one of his golf buddies, this guy, Dave, you he had the job. There was a big mirror print works in Watford, and he had when the Maxwell thing kicked off, Dave, that Dave Burke was his name. He had the job, and he worked for the mirror pension trustees. His job was to go into rooms with these mirror printers and tell them their pension are gone. And you can imagine that being a really, really wearing and hard, hard job anyway, back into today. Yeah, this seems like a nuts idea. So when DB pension schemes aren't in deficit, but are, for once, in surplus, Reeves has floated the idea that sponsoring companies can access those surplus funds for whatever purpose they deem fit, which to me just seems like an absolute recipe, a recipe for disaster. And have you guys seen this story?

Alan Smith: 33:26

Seeing it, it's been booted for a while. I haven't really caught up. I think it's just been the latest. I don't I mean, this is obviously, this is ring fenced. This is ultimately pensioner money. It's employees, ex employees, retirees. This is held in a trust, formally, for the benefit of, I just don't get, I mean, I haven't really spent much time on it, but I don't understand, legally, how are you saying the sponsoring employer, yeah, who have funded, properly part funded. HMRC would have also funded in terms of a contribution from tax, and a lot of employees would have funded, or part funded as well, yeah, but,

Unknown: 34:05

well, it's been created

Alan Smith: 34:07

because, without getting political, but you can't avoid as a result of some of the recent or the budget,

Nick Lincoln: 34:15

schemes are in surplus, but they can easily, schemes are suddenly being deficit, and it's like

Carl Widger: 34:21

they're going to make them plug the holes of the deficits. Well, that's right, you got to plug the hole in the deficit. Most

Alan Smith: 34:29

schemes deficit for donkeys years. The whole thing is,

Nick Lincoln: 34:34

yes, that's the other thing. What DB schemes are actually,

Alan Smith: 34:39

but if they change. You change the accounting principles. That's that's one that smoke and mirrors and fudging numbers and all of a sudden you're in a massive deficit. If we tweak this on this spreadsheet, oh, you're a massive surplus. Now, happy days. It doesn't seem like a prudent, sensible thing to me. If anything, you know, pension schemes. These are DB pension schemes. People's longevity is increasing. People living longer, the debt, the implied debt on the pension scheme, is going to be significant. And just because you've got a spike in guilt yields, you know, recently, and a couple of other financial engineering things, all of a sudden, I don't know what the employer is permitted to do, because they're talking about 60 billion will be injected into the UK economy. As a result, I'm thinking, calm down. What the hell I need to learn more about it. But it doesn't seem like a sensible idea right now.

Nick Lincoln: 35:25

It smacks of desperation to try and get the UK economy, the moribund economy, you know, moving. But I just think there's so much downside with this. What did we never let you know? Do we never never learn? It's never seem to learn anyway, okay. Oh, this is another joyous one as well. Yeah, June, isn't it this year Ultra

Andy Hart: 35:42

Yeah. So this is from the Adam Smith Institute, the second wisest Scottish person to ever live, behind Alan. It's the publishing tank,

Alan Smith: 35:54

sorry, right wing Think Tank. You remember? So

Andy Hart: 35:57

every year they publish Tax Freedom Day. Tax Freedom Day in 2024 was the latest on record. Correct Nicholas Tax Freedom Day was the 10th of June. So up until that point, you work for the government, and on this link, it says, historically, over the last sort of 5060, years, what date or day of the year Tax Freedom Day is sort of triggered the earliest to have had it, which means it's the best for the end punter, was around April, the 25th and in the last few years, the graph has just been going sort of up to the right. And this year it's the 10th of June. So yeah, you're going to work is

Alan Smith: 36:35

that? Is that a general across the population? Of course, for some it will be later. It will be in July. It'll be July

Andy Hart: 36:41

depends on your tax band. But, yeah, this is an average, and averages are, yeah, insanely accurate for large groups, insanely inaccurate for individuals. So, um, yeah, so 10th of June,

Alan Smith: 36:51

apply your road tax, your VAT, your council tax, you're getting into August, I promise you, yeah, I've done the sums. It's,

Nick Lincoln: 37:00

it is keep working guys, those on welfare depending on you,

Unknown: 37:04

because you're in a bad way over there. You

Andy Hart: 37:07

love this, don't you? We're looking okay. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what a positive though, I've got another tax story. So the Sunday Times issue their top taxpayers every year. And I'm insanely interested in this list. Obviously, it's income tax, corporation tax. It's collectively all the tax that they pay as their companies. The number one taxpayer this year. Normally it's Denise Coates and her family who run bets 365, and I get on that in a minute. I'm going to focus on a couple of ones in the top 10. The number one this year is Chris hon who is a hedge fund billionaire, a huge philanthropist. He's normally the biggest giver for charity. He's the biggest pair of tax. He's the biggest giver for charity. He's doing a lot of good stuff. So he paid 330, 9 million in tax. Number two is Fred and Don sorry, Fred and Peter Dunn. Long story short, they run bet Fred, which is a bookies online, but also live bookmakers, 1300 across the UK. But here's the sort of rub. Chris hon paying 330 9 million, he's going to be extracting very minimal back. He runs a hedge fund with 50 of them sitting in their pants in Notting Hill, like they're not using any you know, services now, whereas Fred and Peter Dunn have got 1300 bookmakers, and gambling is a bit of a, you know, issue in society, to 1.5% of people that gambler problem gamblers. It creates havoc for a lot of people. It's a huge, expensive, yeah, have you controlled yours now? Andy, slowly, I've been working on it for years.

Carl Widger: 38:35

I can tell you he's actually doing really well, because he tells us every time he wins.

Nick Lincoln: 38:40

He's not told us for a while, though.

Andy Hart: 38:45

So what I'm saying is, you know, people that have these huge tax bills, a lot of their companies are, you know, taking as well as there's ones that I mean, as I say, Chris horn paying 339, the cost he's actually taking back is minimal. A couple of other people on the list. So Tim Martin, Nick You know him very well, the weather spoons. He's a

Alan Smith: 39:07

close, personal friend of mine. He's coming on my other podcast. He's

Nick Lincoln: 39:13

very entertaining. He's brilliant.

Alan Smith: 39:15

I met, I met him at the some events last year, and he was fabulous. Really entertaining guy. Yeah, we should, we should get him up for lunch. Actually, he just, we should do that. Yeah, for sure. You

Unknown: 39:26

know where you're going to take him, don't

Alan Smith: 39:30

you? He goes. He goes to one almost every day. He was telling me he walked. He does what you do. He walks about 10 miles a day and has a couple of pints.

Andy Hart: 39:38

He's like a multi millionaire billion he he paid 170 million taxed tax last year. So it's quite an interesting list. Any questions on it? There's usual suspects and some new people. There was a new couple, Mark and Linda O'Hare Suffolk base. They sold a company pre Quinn for 2.5 billion pounds last year and paid 200 for. Million in tax I've never heard of the company pre Quinn. They started to BlackRock, and it's an investment company, so very it was theta, isn't it?

Alan Smith: 40:15

That sounds like a very attractive tax rate to pay. They paid 10% attractive tax rate.

Andy Hart: 40:21

They snuck that through, didn't they? Yeah, just show your business for 2.5 billion, 30

Alan Smith: 40:26

million. I think we should be clear on this. If people are tuning into this podcast for deep technical feedback and advice, then tune out, because you aren't going to get it here.

Unknown: 40:37

If we're not going you will, it'll be wrong. Yeah, there are other podcasts for like technical.

Nick Lincoln: 40:43

None of this program should be construed as advice. If you act on the contents of this show without first reading your body weight, you may well be struck down by life.

Alan Smith: 40:52

Yes, yes, correct, right? I

Nick Lincoln: 40:56

think it's time for some self promotion. Mr. Hart, yeah,

Unknown: 40:59

over to you, Nick. Oh, okay.

Nick Lincoln: 41:01

Oh, my God, I'm so uncomfortable. Well, okay, we're doing the next voyant test user group, 21st of March, myself and ultra hosting it online. It works really well online. Tickets are on sale at the link in the so called show notes. But the 21st of March, and obviously, hopefully by then, voyant has updated the software to reflect the changes to pensions and inheritance tax, and they've

Andy Hart: 41:21

made the changes on the BPR, bad situation for, uh, business owners, entrepreneurs, the pension thing, we're unsure. But anyway, yeah,

Nick Lincoln: 41:31

it'll be budget

Carl Widger: 41:32

related. Probably put it off then, guys, until the the office show must go

Andy Hart: 41:37

on. Carl, the show must go on. My friend, can

Alan Smith: 41:39

I ask you a question? They've asked a question about that. When you have people on this, this training, presumably everyone is on it is on a different part of the journey. Some have just started using points. Yeah, that is all right. So is there? What did you do? Generic training? You got kind of experts

Andy Hart: 41:55

and well, the way we normally do it, way we normally do it, is we distribute an example case study that's very simple, very high level. Then we all plug into the system. And then the person people are at their homes or wherever, yeah, it works really well. You can be in your desk, anywhere you are. Usually get just under About 100 people from usually all over the UK, a couple of people from Ireland. We issue the training material beforehand. They then we build the live, we build the case, live with them, and then we discuss and come up with strategies. Sometimes you just do a presentation like half an hour. Here's some cool features you need to know, but generally it's hands on. So, yeah, that's the so good You're doing the different all different skill levels, from one out of 10 to 10 out of 10. Sorry,

Alan Smith: 42:31

this is free.

Andy Hart: 42:34

No, it's paid for. Oh, these are the only thing free in this world. Alan is cheese and a mouse trap. You know that? Move on,

Nick Lincoln: 42:44

Jesus Christ, watch Come on. Finish this off. The last topical tidbit.

Carl Widger: 42:55

So Brett sends out his, it's weekly, I think, his newsletter and Brett's newsletter has challenged me recently. He's very straight talking. He's bloody brilliant, because there's a few things recently in the newsletter, and it's like, just get over yourself. Like these are problems everyone is having where I thought I was being special. So I think, do you know when a newsletter is coming? You say, Oh, I'll subscribe to that, and I'll always read it. And there's so many of them. Over the years, I've just went, Oh God, how did I ever think that was going to be valuable? I read breaths every single time it comes into my inbox, and if I don't have time, I will always leave it there and I'll come back and read it. So anybody at all who is building or looking to build a firm, I would say definitely, at the very least, subscribe to Brett's newsletter. I saw on LinkedIn there recently that he's doing a kind of road show with Abraham. They're doing six cities in the UK like that. Could only be good, because, like, two very entertaining, straight talking guys, I think you know that. Go and see him. Go and listen to Brad. I really do think you mentioned Phil brayer around like Phil is doing really good stuff as well. There are, there are a few people who have consistently, for a long time, produced some really, really good stuff that could be used by guys and girls who are trying to set up firms and trying to try to make it go out of, you know, real financial planning and offer really good advice, and, you know, stand by their own values as to what their business should look like. And I think Brett and a few others, you know, would be really good people to follow and follow closely at that. I agree,

Alan Smith: 44:39

poor possibly. I can relate to that Carl in the eye readers and Europe, our inbox is inundated with newsletters, and God knows what else, I always try to make time to read Brett's. And I've said, I think I mentioned this as one of my culture corners in the past, because I just it just resonates. When I read Brett stuff, it's sometimes it's loud. Wait for Nick. Wait for it, Nick. It's like he's reading my mind. I thought I was just been thinking about that, and he really understands the kind of the landscape and what's going on for and it's not just starting a business. It's just, you know, breaking through the next level to get through half a million, get through a million of revenue, get to 3 million, or whatever, all these different journey points that people are on. He seems to get it and understand it. So yeah, I 100% endorse it. Subscribe to his gym. And the other thing is, he is for the aforementioned trap live on the 14th of May. Brett is running his conference on that that day. So there'll be people who are going along to Brett's conference, and then come along and join us for the evening. And it's the timeline one the day after. So, Abraham, you also mentioned, so you get a sort of triple dose, if you want to come along with with trap as the sandwich, as the filling in the sandwich.

Carl Widger: 45:56

Maybe, maybe lots of people can gather at all three events, and, you know, like, really share so much brilliant ideas and have some fun whilst we're doing it too, because they there's a lot of really good minds there. And I, I'm oldest, like a new boys. We, none of us are inventing anything. So if we can just share the great ideas that we're using, that are working with our clients. I think what we all share is, and I'm going to drive this one home, because it's going to come up in the next part. You know, we have values as to what our business should look like. We have values as to what we want to add to our clients. And that's what real financial planning is about. It's about really doing great work for your clients.

Nick Lincoln: 46:41

Excellent. What an excellent way to finish the topical tidbits and finish them we will do because we're at 47 minutes in, and we do need to move on to the meat and potato. This could be the shortest meat and potatoes we've ever done. It could it could be an absolute Well, it could be one of these the longest, but we're going to give it a go anyway. And when I say this chap's name, please do not scream and say, Christ, no, not the trap pack talking about politics. I come here for anything but politics. We're going to try and keep the actual sort of, you know, down in the weeds, politics out of it. But we have to talk about what's happened over the Atlantic in the USA. Obviously the new president has been sworn in. I say the word Trump. And you know, some people get triggered by a Trump derangement syndrome is a real thing, TDS. I think one, at least one member of the Track Pack might well be struggling with a version of TDs. And I'm sure he'll opine later. We have to talk about it, if only because, regardless of what we think of Trump, and he's a Marmite character that you are, you'd like him or loathe him. But as Ben Shapiro said, the facts don't care about your feelings, whatever you think about him. He is the president of the most powerful country in the world. He's coming with a radical agenda. I think it's going to impact us in this country. It's going to impact our clients. And it also raises the the other thing, which I think we're going to address today as well at some stage of how do do we talk about politics without our clients? Because people who are pro Trump are generally quite they'll come out and say it, and he is a divisive figure. The reason it's so important is we are downstream of America again, whether you like it or not, it's a fact, both culturally and certainly economically and a vibrant us. Economy is good for us. It's good for the Irish. It's good for the people in the UK. It's good for Europe. So before, just before the show recorded, I just typed into Google, eu versus US economy. I didn't put any slant on it. Wasn't a leading question, just EU versus US economy. The United States has a larger economy than the European Union. The US has a higher GDP growth rate, higher labor productivity and more investment in research and development. US workers are more productive than European workers producing more per hour worked. The gap in labor productivity has widened since the early 2000 and 10s. The US has invested more in research and development, which has increased productivity the EU. The EU has lagged behind in investing in new technologies. And just a final thing, there's a report from Santander in june 2023 which said in 2008 the size of the European economy was 10% larger than that of the US by 2022 it was 23% smaller. That is an astounding fact, and it's not, not in a good way, the GDP of the European Union has grown in this period. 2008 2023 by 21% compared to 72% for the USA. And many people would say the last few years in the USA haven't been one of its great economic spurts. And despite that, it's done that. So if the US matters, because it's pulling away and pulling and pulling away from us in our part of the West, and I think what Trump is doing, if it works, he's coming with this massive, massive, just these range of ideas from from the doge thing, headed by Elon Musk crypto, getting, getting government involved in that, whatever you think of that AI, which, again, you know, as Alan led off with the topical tidbits, is in, in. News Now, because there's a threat to that from the from the Chinese. But by God, the Americans, if they're anything, they're industrious and they're innovators. Now they will come back with their own thing. This matters. This matters. A strong USA drives us, much as we might not want to believe it or want to admit it. It is so important to our economies, because we're downwind a bit. I think, personally, I'm a fan of I know he can be very Gosh in his actions and his his mangling of the English language sometimes is is something to listen to, but I think in the round, he's positive. He's a force for change. Economically, he'll be good for the USA if he does what he says is going to do, they could go on a tear, and the S, p5 100 could be at levels we would struggle to imagine in four or five years. Of course, this could all change, because in his first term, things were going guns, the economy was blazing along. He put tax cuts in, and then the Wuhan lab leak happened, didn't it? And and he made mistakes, as all Western governments, bar Sweden's, did, and things changed. But I think the potential is really, really good, and it's this, for me, it's a source of optimism, because in the UK, as I kind of alluded to, we can't avoid it. This is not political. We're in a bit of a funk, and that's not because of the current administration. There was a blue administration before that, from 2010 to 2024 and there was a red administration before that, from 1997 to 2010 so we're just now swimming in 30 years of bad policy making, and I think we've got a chance to get out of it, if, if we pick up the ideas that are coming across from, from the USA. And I think he surrounded himself with such a great team. That's the difference between 2016 Elon Musk got again, I know I noticed one member of our team is not a fan of Elon Musk, and we'll know that that might come up. David Sacks from the audience podcast. You know, Vivek Ramaswamy. RFK, who seems to be a really decent, these are really decent, grounded people he surrounded himself with.

Alan Smith: 51:48

So whatever you think of him, Tulsi Gabbard. JD, Van Tulsi Gabbard.

Nick Lincoln: 51:51

JD, these are really solid people who obviously want to work with France. So he must have something going for him. And yeah, on that I was, I was walking at the weekend with the lovely penal ptlp and two of her head teacher friends, and he, one of them was a chat, and he said, at the end of the day, he said, What do you think about Trump? And I said, Yeah, I think he's, I think I think he's probably certainly better than perhaps I'm trying to avoid politics. Yeah, I think he's really good. And he went, Yeah, but he's, he's surrounded by business people. And he said it as a pejorative. I said, yeah, really organized, competence, driven, motivated, over achievers. You want to be surrounded by these people? And he said his words were, yes, but all business people are immoral. Now I had to bite my lip a little bit. I said, You do realize that I'm a business person? To which he said, Yeah, well, obviously, I said, No, you said, All business people. You could have said most. You said, anyway, we talked about, how

Alan Smith: 52:47

did the rest of you walk?

Unknown: 52:51

It was a quick Sunday. Rose, really,

Nick Lincoln: 52:53

when you've had, when you've had a lifetime in the state, I suppose you do these business people you pay for your salary and your pensions as absolutely, inherently evil. So I think Trump is a really good thing. I in terms of, would I bring it up with clients? No, I wouldn't. And I don't if clients bring it up and they say, I can't believe that bloody awful Trump got in. He's a convicted this, that, and then whatever. And I'll say, Yeah, I will then push back. But I never, I never raise it in meetings, because it's like sex and religion, isn't it? It's just so potentially problematic. You just don't go there unless, I think, unless the client, the client, invites the conversation. So I in the round for our clients, I think the next four years are going to be good, because I think the chance for the West, the sunlight is emanating from over the Atlantic, and it's going to, hopefully it'll have hit here. And we can, we can take on board some of the lessons that are going to be implemented in the in the USA, and we need to do them in this country. Because if you know they they've got debt, they've got massive government borrowing, massive, massive debts, and so have we. And it ain't getting any better over here. So that's what I think about it. I think it's a really good thing. It's giving me optimism for the future, because, as I say, we are downstream of that, of that, of that continent. We just are like it low there. Thoughts, opinions. Do you

Unknown: 54:03

want me to go? Yes,

Nick Lincoln: 54:07

oh, arms are crossed. Here we go.

Carl Widger: 54:10

I'm significantly challenged by his actions, by his values, by his words. And for me, I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but then it can't all be just about, oh, funds will go up every the economies will do better. They probably will. But at what cost, and is it baby out with the bath water? I would argue, potentially, I think you're right. Nick I would never and I don't post on social media saying, here are my political views. I don't think that that's helpful, really at all. Maybe we should talk about if you do have a client who wants to talk about it, I will share my views. That I don't believe that I share my my values are not the same as Trump's at all. I've held that view through his first term. I couldn't believe he got elected the first time. I couldn't believe you got elected. Yeah, no, and I hear you that he's probably better equipped in terms of the team around them this time, but just I can't get comfortable with so just some of the things that he's done and and people who you know he doesn't like, or who have challenged him, his his how he treats those people is just not right. And I did read the Elon Musk book, and I I put it in my culture corner and said it's a great book, but I said that there's a dark side to this dude, and I think the dark side is really coming out, and I think the man is unhinged, I do, and you know, he'll probably come after me, because what he did with some people who called him out is just horrible, absolutely horrible stuff. And if anybody can watch, well, you guys have because I put it into our group, the his speech and the inauguration ceremony. I'm sorry. Like, this is scary for me, that these people are going to be, you know, deciding which way the world goes. Like to be making claims like that. This was the most important election. Humanity has been saved. And how, you know, absolute horseshit, I'm sorry, absolute and other horseshit that Trump gets in. And so therefore humanity is saved. And how great will it be to plant an American flag on Mars? You're, you're from South Africa, you moron. So, like, I just can't, I cannot I look guys, it can't all be about money and and if ever there was proof that this is all about money. You know, Trump and Elon Musk, you know, hooking up, and then Mark Zuckerberg decided, oh yeah, actually, Trump's a great fella. And I see other business leaders who are doing the same thing. They're all going shit. This train is leaving.

Nick Lincoln: 57:17

That is sickening, the switches, the U turns. I don't disagree with that. So yeah, and

Carl Widger: 57:24

it's I it we have to, on some level, we have to have our own values that we will hold ourselves accountable to. And I have mine. I know what they are, and I'm not going to say that. I think it's great that Trump's going to get in, because I think that the S, p5, 100 will increase in value over the next four years. I do believe it probably will. But really, at the end of the day, I I'd be worried for the world that my kids are going to enter the their their working lives into when all of this is seen, seen as, okay,

Nick Lincoln: 58:06

okay, well, well, well, made I focused on the economic side because I didn't want to get into the political and the cultural impacts he would have. But I think he's already done significant stuff on that, which definitely aligns with my values in terms of they're just just just speaking truths that we've all known to be true for years, but we couldn't say. And he's saying, No, we're not having this, you know, this is there are two sexes basically, you know, we're scrapping this dei stuff, which is inherently racist. I think this is really, really powerful stuff that I totally, totally get get, and I think that is a really good thing for our children to know these things are happening and to peel back some of this nonsense. Kindly come back that if you want, and into course, or look

Carl Widger: 58:44

on that point. I'm not saying that I did totally disagree with absolutely everything that he's coming out with. I don't right, but I just find that I don't know it's why are we teaching Well, what are we teaching ourselves that's okay when, if he, if I disagree with Alan Smith, that I'm going to start making fun out of him publicly. I'm going to go after I'm going to chase him down publicly. You do, I'm going to embarrass him publicly. No, this is important stuff. This is, this is what um Elon Musk has done to anyone who's challenged him. Now, you read the book, he said it himself, right? It's, it's, it's not okay. Do we have to have some, some level of um debate that's a that's allowed that we have different views. So I'm okay, um, with some of the views that he has, he's not all wrong, for absolute sure, he's not all wrong. But I, I'm just look, it boils down to this. I We have our team day tomorrow at meadows, our annual team day, and I'm looking back at the values that we've written down for ourselves, right, respect, inspiration and authenticity. I'm not compromising on those for anybody. We had our client advisory panel meeting a couple of weeks ago. It's. And, you know, the future of matters was discussed a little bit, and I went, I am not compromising on these values. I don't care what happens to anybody. These are my values. So, so I'm okay with saying I don't agree with I think Trump is. Watch the movie The on the early years of Trump. I watched it right. There are issues there. There are deep seated issues there. I think Elon Musk is a scary, scary character for us to be putting in as basically the the puppet master, or something like that, in the most powerful government in the world. I think Mark Zuckerberg has told us all exactly what they're all after, power, power, power, power. That's what they're all after. And money is power for these people. And sorry, don't like it at all. Okay, well said,

Nick Lincoln: 1:00:54

I think storyteller, you should perhaps go now. You've been on, you've been, I can't speak for you can shoot me down, but you become more involved in just following the political wins in the last few years, have you not?

Alan Smith: 1:01:05

I have, in recent times, just stating my case, I honestly say that I'm politically neutral. I'm broadly politically neutral. I've actually voted for all the main in my voting career, all the main the main political parties at the various times, and what I am is pro positive economy, pro business, pro those things, because I know the impact that has. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family, and I know that you know, creativity, entrepreneurship and all that stuff tends to create benefits. Someone wants to open a corner shop, a restaurant or something or other employ people pay their taxes and so on. It is a positive So, broadly speaking, I am for smaller government, as opposed to huge, cumbersome administrations with all the costs and the inefficiencies and which which are well documented and well known about. So I'm not extreme one way or the other, but what's apparent to me, I mean, there's a couple of things going on. One, social media didn't exist in, you know, 10 to the same extent that it does now, you know, give back a generation or 10 or 20 years, so everything is analyzed to the a millionth degree. And this issue around, and it's the same in the UK, whether it's Starmer and his government in Europe or America, what people are doing and be specific about Trump, in my opinion, they're playing the man and not the ball. People have got a preconceived view about him because they know him. He's been a media celebrity for decades now, and he's he's uncouth and he's abrupt, and he's right. So we say, well, so we say, and that happens. That's because we're humans. We've we make, you know, heuristics and shortcuts. I like him. I hate him. I love her. I just like based on what we observe and how that either complies with or challenges with our own personal values, as you were talking about Carl. So Trump comes across as that. So he's a very easy character, character to dislike based on some of his activities in the past. But what I'm saying is, let's pause for breath, and let's go into the second, second level of thinking, which, what about policy? What about, you know, things that have happened, things that have we're very, you know, we're a week, we're barely a week into this new administration. And I think Trump 2.0 is significantly different to Trump 1.0 because he was like a rabbit in the headlights going he had no you know, it's not a joke, Nick, he was surprised that he got he became president of the US, and he adults, but he learned a lot from that. I think the four years out of office also, you know, you learned during that, and he's come back in, and I just seeing, I mean, I'm just talking, I'm still talking about the personality, what have you. So I'm seeing a different Trump, not quite so bombastic as the previous one. He's still, you know, this core character traits that will never change. But I'm more focusing on on policy and results. And it is true to say that there were no wars in the four years that Trump sat as president. There wasn't the Middle East war, there wasn't a European war, and there has been sort of significant global upset in the when his successor took over. Is that all down to Biden being in place? Not Not at all. But you know, policy, foreign policy and the US is whether, whether we agree or not, it is the policeman of the world and their impact, and the things that they do have a significant impact so and then, and the economy was booming, As Nick said, Before COVID came along, that us, economy was going great guns. And so I'm trying to separate the people, the personalities, the views, because we're on this like 24/7 social media age. And by the way, I would also say, everything I consume nowadays, I'm always going, what's the source? What's the source, what's the if you know, if you, if you, you know, you save the Trump early years film. I haven't watched that, but I said, Well, who made it was did he? Did he contribute to it? Or was it. Made by a media that have a vendetta or something against him. So I would always, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I'll always go to the source of because there's plenty of you know mainstream media that you read something and you think that's terrible, and then you realize that, you know they've got, they've got an agenda, and we know that we're all very influenced. So those are the things. I'm politically neutral, but I agree, broadly speaking, the US economy seems to be because of the team he's put together. That's the stuff that's going on in Silicon Valley. With technology is going to make such a significant impact. There's a lot of things coming together at the same time. That is tech, it is AI, it is even crypto. There's just a lot of changes which will happen at a at a significant pace, and what's going to happen is we've effectively got a, you know, a split test, a global split test. We've got Europe on one. We've got a four year split test. Trump's just come in, the government in the UK is just been in for under a year, with potentially another four years to go. So it's like, okay, if you've actually got, in real time. The first time ever a business, first lower taxes, very free market, free market economy, government, and you've got one which is taking a different view, you know, the Labor Party have obviously got a significantly different view on that. So it's kind of what we'll see. Now, I'm not saying it's all about growth at all costs. Let's all reduce taxes and get growth. We do have to be very aware of protecting the vulnerable in society and making sure that you know that there is a fair and reasonable economy. And I think that can be achieved. I still I make no apologies, apologies for the fact that I am a free market capitalist. I believe that human ingenuity creativity and made into products and services. Do create benefits. We've known it for hundreds of years. We create benefits all the programs. And yes, you do have to be careful that not all the wealth is accumulated in, you know, a tiny amount of

Carl Widger: 1:06:53

time. And I suppose that's my point. Alan is, you know, I'm broadly the same. I would say, you know, but there's too much going towards too few? Yeah, but

Alan Smith: 1:07:02

hang on a minute. We're just Andy. Andy pointed out there's, there's one guy in the UK who paid 390 million pounds of tax, and all the statistics about the top 1% pay X. I can't remember the numbers, but the but these, so the top 1% pay a third of all tax, 30% so, so, all right, so people, people get angry about all the rich, and they're awful, aren't they, but 30% of the total HMRC tax revenue in the UK buyer by 1% so I don't you know it shouldn't be rich versus income

Andy Hart: 1:07:31

tax. Just to clarify that for the technical people listening, okay, it shouldn't be

Alan Smith: 1:07:35

rich versus should be. Some people have got the ability and the aptitude and the skills to to, you know, to create products and services, to create profits and what have you, and if they are happy to, and most are, but these people certainly are. Most of the business owners I know are happy to make a contribution towards it, and we all win together, is the kind of the strategy. So that's my kind of vague ramblings about the whole thing. But you want to come back at some point and talk about client conversations, because I think that's a really valid, valid point I was mentioning before about, you know, some, some people have much my company. Even some people got much stronger views than I have. I am pretty down the road, down the middle. Some have got much stronger views on perhaps the other side of the aisle from you Nick, for example. And that can create some, well, not some, not difficulties, but possibly strained conversations. Or some people zip in their mouth when clients are expressing very, very strongly held opinions. But I'll shut up then and listen to what Mr. Hart has to say.

Andy Hart: 1:08:35

Well, I agree with all of you. Oh, you're the politician. I am joking. You're the politician, Ultra, very, very aligned to Alan and a lot of the things he said, I was going to say, in relation to client conversations, you probably won't be surprised, very shallow client conversations around politics, for obvious reasons. That's just generally

Unknown: 1:08:56

speaking, any

Nick Lincoln: 1:08:58

subject clients are very familiar

Andy Hart: 1:09:00

with that strategy. You want to talk about investments for about investments, financial plan, and away we're going, I'm your man, but you're right. It's this AB test, split test, live in progress, obviously the US, light regulation, pro growth, lowering taxes, the UK, Europe, heavy regulation, higher taxes, and it's already showing as slower growth. I'm also a big fan of what El Salvador doing? Argentina again, they're all just lighter. Government, pro growth. The Trump situation is, is interesting. Even the thing recently happened with Colombia, aware of it. So there was two, yep, two military planes going to Colombia with, what's the word Nick I know. We're not gonna accept the plane for, you know, you're treating them as criminals when they're just, you know, illegal immigrants, whatever. And then immediately that night, heavy tariffs, you know, import duties. You know, all the Colombian officials won't be a. And immediately the Colombian government just backed down straight away. I mean, how long would that take for, you know, the previous Trump did

Alan Smith: 1:10:06

it while he was on Sunday. He did it while he's playing golf. He was too under par, and he just texted it.

Carl Widger: 1:10:16

He's never been too under par in his life. But anyway,

Andy Hart: 1:10:20

immediate restrictions, immediate tariffs, and then obviously they back down immediately, because obviously they're the big boys of the world. So yeah, pro change, pro growth, in terms of, obviously some funny things, obviously he's brought out the Trump meme coin, which is a crypto meme, so it has no value. It's just, it's just that. It's just a punt. I think the current valuation of that is around about 6 billion. At one stage, Trump's net worth went to, I know it's just all the money and it's all the boring stuff, and he's got enough of it. So is he long? They're not really too fussed about that. I mean, once you breach

Carl Widger: 1:10:53

they can, oh, they are. You can bet your bottom daughter, yeah, money day one, more and more and more and more and more

Andy Hart: 1:11:02

they as astonishing fact, I realized this week, America now accounts for 73% of the MSCI. 25% of GDP is America. 25 to the world's GDP is America, but the MSCI 73% American. So their companies are performing a lot better than the country. Yeah, lots of interesting facts, lots of things to unpack, but yeah, it's going to be interesting for you seeing what happens in the US versus the UK. Specifically. Back to our clients, the bulk of their life savings are invested in America, 50, 60% again, just from a money point of view. But money is freedom. Freedom is opportunity. So the more stuff we can do for our clients, the better. Yeah. Back to you guys to thrash it out.

Nick Lincoln: 1:11:44

Well, I'm not sure there's much else we can say. Really, we've got different views, haven't we, as soon as that was a respectful conversation, I don't we couldn't ignore it, pretend it didn't happen, because it has happened. And that's, that's the lie of the land. I think the the interesting point Alan introduced it, and you had amplified it Ultra there was this, there this, this stark test. There's this lab test that over there, they're doing this, and over here, we're doing that. And let's just see what there is. I've got a strong gut feeling which way, which way is going to win out. But, yeah, but I

Carl Widger: 1:12:13

don't know does the is the UK? Is this, you know, the UK and the rest of Europe? Are they all aligned either. I think perhaps it's a little bit more draconian what the UK are doing. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but

Nick Lincoln: 1:12:28

no, I was reference the UK. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the UK seems to have been out. I mean that, you know, a lot of European countries are turning more center, center, right, and we are a bit of an outlier. So that's, that's the contrast in the UK and the US, yeah, trying to say, okay, all right, so we've Aaron 30 minutes. I know that ultra, you got to get the rug wraps shortly. So well, we won't. I'm good. I'm good for time. Don't worry. Okay, well, of course it is the TRAPPIST questions. And I know it's TRAPPIST question time because I can see post at the front door. There she is, his heart. Hold the bulging sack of TRAPPIST letters up the drive. And if you, dear listener, want to put a question to us, just click on the link in the so called Show Notes or in the pinned tweet on X Twitter, whatever you want to call it, and we will get to your questions. The questions we're doing today are from July and August. Well, I don't know if we're going to do both, because one of them's more of a statement. I'll let Alan talk about that one if he wants to. But the question we're going to do is from July last year. And let me just open this up and see who it is from. This is from Jamie Cook, who's on Twitter as at Jamie Cook, 1997 Oh God, another one goes on forever. Hi, gents. Questions about clients taking income fully on board with your global equity strategy for clients in retirement that still have potentially 25 years of investing to go giving them the best hedge against inflation, I also understand the strategy of having two years worth of capital expenditure in cash slash short term bonds to deal with any temporary market declines. But where do you actually pay the money from when the client is taking income. At what stage do you then move money from the equity fund into cash? Do you fully exhaust the capex in cash first, and then when this has been spent, sell down another two years worth of CapEx? If so, what if at this point we're in the middle of a temporary market decline? Hope that question, questions, questions. Jamie, questions. Hope those questions make sense. But basically, I want to understand when and where you pay out the capex and also how you then time refilling this bucket when the client is spending podcast is 10 out of 10, and I'm already seeing the benefits of your knowledge when dealing with clients. Cheers, Jamie, well, thank you for that lovely sign off. I'll quickly go first on this one. I think it'll probably be me and ultra on this one. Delaware. This one, delabot, if he's there, his video camera's gone very simply with my preferred platform, which is transact. You can tell transact each month to sell down a number of units generate an amount of cash. So I just don't have a monthly basis. The client needs three grand worth of cash a month. Try. Transaction will sell down 3000 pounds worth of funds to cash, and then that gets paid out. So I don't have it coming out of a cash buffer, which then gets replenished every year or two years. It's a brilliant feature. You just sell down from the actual invested funds and then pay it out. If we enter a temporary decline, then yes, you've got the separate bucket in short, dated bonds or what have you that you draw on for two years or so. And hopefully by that stays, the worst of the bear market is in the rear view mirror, but monthly disinvestment, pay that amount of the client. What's your approach? Ultra I was

Andy Hart: 1:15:29

gonna say, this is back to the art and science, isn't it? It's way more of an art when you're dealing with real clients. This sounds like we're trying to forward think a problem that sort of fits nicely on a spreadsheet. So again, it depends on the client and what's happening. But, yeah, transact. Can do lots of fun, fancy stuff with selling down different funds, different cash accounts from different wrappers. But again, it's not normally that clear cut, you know? It depends. Sometimes ad hoc withdrawal, sometimes money's landed, you know? It depends. It's always client specific, yeah, so I don't really have much to add for that,

Nick Lincoln: 1:15:59

okay? Storyteller and deliver. You going to contribute to contribute to this

Unknown: 1:16:04

one or not? No, okay, no,

Nick Lincoln: 1:16:05

you have, you have, you have your you have your people to do this for you, don't you? You just Yes. Okay, fine, all right. Well, um, do you want to mention that the reference, even

Andy Hart: 1:16:14

the language, capex and stuff, I mean, hopefully doesn't use that with clients. I mean, it's this lifestyle, and he's talks about income as well. It's not income, it's withdrawals to fund the lifestyle. So spending, yeah, I

Alan Smith: 1:16:25

think that's, that's, I think that's a worthwhile point. Mentioning it. It's about, you know, is Andy Hart phrase, words are weapons, framing language and stuff. Yeah. I mean, imagine, yeah, you don't say capex took a client.

Andy Hart: 1:16:35

No, no, I'm hoping it doesn't. And again, income, let's be quite careful on that. It's withdrawals to fund lifestyle. Yeah, a few points,

Nick Lincoln: 1:16:44

yeah, just, I haven't got Nick You can read out the question, well, the statement, or the statement, statement, okay, so statement from Chris Baumer, B, O, W, M, E, R, fortitude, financial planning. He's on LinkedIn, and Chris says, just so you know, we started using the ONS personal income calculator in 2008 maybe Alan saw it back then and decided to bring it up 15 years on.

Carl Widger: 1:17:12

Yeah, this is my point. It's everywhere now this kind of stuff.

Nick Lincoln: 1:17:17

Yes, that's the pylon

Unknown: 1:17:22

calling him out. He calling you out. I

Alan Smith: 1:17:25

don't know. I know Chris a little bit. Met him a few times. Seems a good company,

Nick Lincoln: 1:17:31

because I don't think,

Alan Smith: 1:17:34

I think it's not even Yeah, I don't, I don't feel called out. We weren't running the trap. 2008 you should 2008 I mean, God, heart was still at primary school, yeah, a few years ago. Come on anyway. But on the very point of that, it is worth reiterating, I am this one of my sort of things I think about. Do not accept the prevailing CPI, RPI, as for lifestyle rubbish, the amount of stuff. Honestly, my missus was saying the other day she was but she was ordering food online, and she just say, Do you know, this has cost this, this, and what was it? I can't remember something rather, but it's gone up by 50% on it last that wasn't olive oil, something else, but just got to shout out

Nick Lincoln: 1:18:18

random foods to get the right. Yeah, it's gone up

Unknown: 1:18:22

the most Avi, so truffles are gone up,

Alan Smith: 1:18:27

the oysters and the price of caviar.

Nick Lincoln: 1:18:31

Yeah, lettuce, Oxton,

Unknown: 1:18:35

no, right, let's shut up.

Alan Smith: 1:18:39

It's not 3% boys and girls. And what this does again, second order thinking is, if you're relying on cash and bonds to fund your you know, dignified lifestyle. The rest of it you are because you think you're growing at if I grow at 2% above inflation, inflation is only 3% if I get five happy days, I don't think so. It forces another conversation. Not saying this again, the heart ism the best portfolio is the one that you'll stick with, true, but you need to know the consequences of it. You really do, because those prices ain't going down anytime soon, and it's not RPI to

Unknown: 1:19:17

global equity super that was a great question. I

Nick Lincoln: 1:19:23

well, actually, we made, we've made something. So thank you, Chris. We'll take that pilot. Okay?

Alan Smith: 1:19:31

80, 8080,

Nick Lincoln: 1:19:33

minutes in for the for the love of God, let's, let's move on to the final segment of the show, which many people call culture corner. Oh, shit. Okay, me first. This is from the many happy returns podcast. One of the CO hosts of that is ramen. Is it neck? Akisa, how'd you say a surname? Andy, don't know. Didn't he speak at your humans under management who RAM in Nikita.

Unknown: 1:20:04

Ramen, yeah,

Nick Lincoln: 1:20:06

the same guy, the same ramen. Niki. So I'm asking

Alan Smith: 1:20:09

how you pronounce the guy. He was thinking about another one. Well, he's

Nick Lincoln: 1:20:13

had so many ramens on his sounds wrong. So the podcast is the podcast is the many hack returns podcast. This episode is called meltdown, scandal, sleaze and the collapse of Credit Suisse, which I think is the book of the same name. So they had a guest on this guy, Duncan Maven, who's written this book about Credit Suisse. I haven't got the book yet. It's on my wish list. I will read it in due course. But they're really interesting. Half an hour credit Swiss, what a complete show. I mean, it was literally the whole history of the bank over over decades, and maybe hundreds of years, 100 years plus. It's just one calamity after another. We have this impression of the of the Swiss being very, you know, methodical and organized and sort of the mechanically wise. They're a brilliant nation, but and UBS, which took over Credit Suisse, seems to be very well written, very well run bank, but Credit Suisse has got this history of just everything, everything, just one calamity, often and in the end, and just too much for them, and UBS bought them out. But it's a half an hour podcast, really engaging, and I might well get the book and read that. So that's mine. That sounds

Alan Smith: 1:21:15

that sounds good, I would, yeah, I think I'll listen to that. What they did to bond holders at Credit Suisse and the nd safety school, they just wiped them out when Credit Suisse, they were supposed to be protected in the instance, it was just Yeah, crazy, an affront to the Swiss banking community. My My coach corner this week is a podcast called advisor marketing Made Simple. Two people, Taylor Schulte and Kendra, right? I think Taylor's has his own podcast separately. So, you know, really, really good, engaging host. And Kendra is a marketing specialist for financial planners. And I just came up in my feed I started listening to and what they do is they kind of do an audit. If a financial planner come on and he says, Well, I'm looking to grow my company, and I'm trying to get grow via LinkedIn or grow via SEO or whatever, and they do a kind of really interesting breakdown. And I found that I've listened to three or four episodes recently, and I found it really good. Anyone who's looking to grow their company wants to get some tips and learning from it, tune into advisor marketing made simple, and listen to a few episodes. Is excellent.

Carl Widger: 1:22:23

Very good. Thank you, Alan. I'm not muted, excellent, and it is me breaking the habit of being yourself by Dr Joe Dispenza. So this is actually linking back to my interview with Brendan ring that I mentioned earlier on. This was Brendan's book that he recommended that was transformational for him. It's, it's brilliant. And if you're, you know, if you're in this, working towards the third actor, if you're in the third act, it's definitely something a book that you should or could read. The first part of it might challenge you, right? I'll just say that, but stick with it. And there is some really good stuff there about, you know, just breaking habit loops, I suppose. So, you know, it's there's some really, really good stuff about, you know, how you can basically change everything if you put your mind to it, but that's the key, putting your mind to it and making your mind work, and I suppose, figuring out how your mind works, and that kind of stuff, I taught it. It's it's really, really good, but deep enough. Now I had to focus on it, which isn't great for my little brain. But anyway, I got through, did you read

Alan Smith: 1:23:41

it when you were on a holiday? Cool?

Unknown: 1:23:43

All inclusive? Yeah, I have some advice around all inclusive. By the way, if people want and you're hungry all the time, it's a disaster.

Nick Lincoln: 1:24:01

Oh, you got your money's worth, at least

Unknown: 1:24:04

they did not have you

Alan Smith: 1:24:07

left monk mode behind. Yeah. Anyway, okay, go back

Andy Hart: 1:24:14

my final culture corner. Bit random, but a fascinating documentary. I think a couple of you watched it. Maybe it's called don't die the man who wants to live forever on Netflix in this documentary, wealthy entrepreneur Brian Johnson puts his body and fortune on the line to defy aging and extend his life beyond all known limits. Fascinating documentary, I recommend you check it out. Smithy, you've watched it, didn't you? I have.

Alan Smith: 1:24:37

Yeah, I quite liked it. I want to know what Carl thinks about it, though, did you check the message the

Carl Widger: 1:24:47

private just looking for attention like and he's got a shitload of money, and he's a little bit strange. The

Unknown: 1:24:56

point you call

Alan Smith: 1:24:59

wishing to. Steal what you were saying, same as fire, exactly. It was putting off his it basically he lives 24/7 so that he can live like for 200 years or something, because all he does every single day is that optimize Absolutely, and he's never had you a good night out with the boys and a few pints and a glass of wine or something, because stuff

Unknown: 1:25:17

that makes life enjoyable. Yeah,

Nick Lincoln: 1:25:20

you want to live forever. You want to live forever by not

Unknown: 1:25:24

living it is really, really fascinating on your own, you're all friends, no

Nick Lincoln: 1:25:27

weirdo, weirdo, and

Alan Smith: 1:25:29

you, you're drawing comparisons with the fire movement. Are you? I want this to get, get the fire community, do we should have somebody from the fire community on this podcast, when I, when

Nick Lincoln: 1:25:41

I, when I remote this episode on Twitter, the advisor podcast handler, I'm gonna say the next episode out in which Carl slags off the fire community, and I'm gonna tag Elon Musk and just see if he picks up on it, just just to see if we can get something going. Yeah,

Alan Smith: 1:25:55

you'll get some feedback on that. They're quite passionate the fire people. Good luck to them.

Nick Lincoln: 1:26:01

Okay, good luck. We're what 8686 minutes in to the trap episode 63 that's 5160 seconds of pure magic. We've just dropped into your ear lobes. So dear trappers, I think it's time to bring this episode to an end. Thank you for your time as another pile of traps slides down the U bend of Father Time. Do remember to give us a review. Six out of five stars will be absolutely lovely. Please. Also watch out for us on Youtube, LIKE and subscribe to our burgeoning YouTube channel. We're well over 1000 subscribers now, which is great, but until the next time from the trap pack, it's adios and take care out there. Folks. Goodbye,

Unknown: 1:26:40

goodbye. Bye, bye, good luck. Think I've just canceled myself

Alan Smith: 1:26:49

trumped arrangement syndrome.