TRAP: The Real Adviser Podcast

67 - Events, Dear Boy, Events!

• Alan Smith; Andy Hart; Carl Widger; Nick Lincoln • Episode 67

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In this latest pile of TRAP, the Trap Pack discuss

  • Topical Titbits
  • Meat and Potatoes: Industry Events: The Good, Bad and The Ugly
  • Culture Corner
  • TRAPist question(s) from Chris Adams https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisadamsapfs?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app, Lee Gleave https://www.linkedin.com/in/leegleave/ and Henry Taylor 

Show links: http://tiny.cc/traplinks

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Unknown:

Music, welcome to the real advisor podcast, T, R, A, P, T, T, follow us and join in the conversation on Twitter at advisor podcast, where you can suggest ideas and themes you'd like the trap team to discuss. Also remember to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave a six out of five star review on iTunes. Doing all this really, really helps us, which means we can do more to help you. Now, let's head over to the studio for the latest pile of trap

Nick Lincoln:

yes, indeed, dear TRAPPIST, welcome back to what many people are calling episode 67 of the real advisor podcast. My name is lick Lincoln, and joining me as ever in the digital studio of doom, are the three other Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Alan the storyteller, Smith, Ellie Ultra heart and Carl delace. Widget Now, gentlemen, learn the show packed full of app, absolutely nothing. So let's start on packing it straight away with some more high energy review reads, read out by my very good friend, the right honorable Mr. Andrew ursain Hart,

Andy Hart:

thank you. Before the high energy review read just a very brief apology. My mic was on the wrong settings. My new mic last time, so hopefully I'm sounding less loud today. Okay, onwards to the review is from Gary Nash, five stars. It's quite a long one, so I'll take a deep breath. Entitled, fantastic podcast. I cannot speak highly enough of this podcast, and feel I owe a debt of gratitude to all four of these chaps. I've been in IFA since 2009 and have worked my way up to develop a wonderful book of clients, but this increasingly came at the expense of my free time with long hours working in the evenings and weekends, a frequent occurrence in May 2024 along with a colleague, we took over an existing firm via an MBO management buyout, Nick, and it's been an enormous task. It was around this time I discovered trap, and I've now devoured every episode. The insights and clarity of thought of Nick, Alan Paul and Andy, has been invaluable. Has been invaluable, and allowing me to reassess both how I work and with whom I work, I have a long way to go, but listening to you guys has really galvanized me at a time I really needed it. So a huge thank you to you, and I hope to meet you all soon and buy you a beer funny that you got an opportunity coming up on top of the expertise, it's nice to see the friendship and bonds you all have as people. Keep up the good work. Back to you. Nicholas, wow.

Nick Lincoln:

Gary Nash, thank you very, very much, fellow. That's a lovely review. That's a real shot now for us and dear TRAPPIST, do keep the reviews coming in. Please. Six out of five stars, you know, the mandatory minimum. Now, as Ultra alluded to, putting a topic of timestamp on this, Mr. Nash, if you want to buy us a beer, why don't you come along to the events of 2025 trap, live Wednesday, May the 14th, in the evening. We have the tickets. Have been going really well. Only launched last week. We've already sold over 100 tickets. We've got about 34 left. I think that as I talk now, I can see the clock just the tickets just going over as they go out the door. 33 left. 32 left. There are about 34 tickets left. Gary Nash, come along to trap live. It was a great success last year. We're looking forward to catching up with all of you again in trap live. This year, all the details are at the realadvisor podcast.com the realadvisor podcast.com click on there. Buy them. They are going fast. Okie dokie, good stuff. Now watch having just built up the show with optimism and passion and a microphone that's actually working for ultra. Give us some catastrophes.

Carl Widger:

Yeah, sorry, I should have pushed this into the middle somewhere.

Andy Hart:

He wakes up every morning, scrolls the newspaper this Yeah,

Carl Widger:

this is, this is, there are definitely good lessons to come out of this. So first of all, this is an article from The Irish Times, a really long, detailed article about the story about CHC capital custom, or CHC Custom House capital. Basically what they were doing was putting people's pension funds into various properties, property deals across Europe, and I suppose, were very successful in the early 2000s and then things started to go extremely pear shaped. And as they went pear shaped, they were basically taking money out of clients, funds to prop up other property deals and this kind of stuff. Yeah, horrendous stuff. And I do remember back then, you know, they were after the inverted commas, high net worth investor and the rest of us were kind of deemed a little bit, you know, like silly boys for not getting in on the back. At this. And that's not to say, Did I recommend geared property funds to clients back then? I did so full full disclosure there, but I didn't move any clients money to prop up property. It is that we're going around anyway. These directors have actually been jailed, right? I've actually been jailed. So the central bank first of all saw that there was issues kind of in 2009 but didn't kind of step in until a year or two later, which I thought kind of strange. Now, there was a reason for that, that they felt that there would be a run on the firm, and things would actually be worse if they did step in when they realized first of all that there was going to be a problem. This is according to the article. And I suppose, look, things taken 1516, years to wash through, and I know some people are still waiting for their pieces of money back because clients did not have segregated accounts. So here's so a couple of the lessons. Number one, yeah, these, these kind of schemes or deals are all great until the last one goes pear shaped. So people tend to keep rolling over. And number two, it is good to see that you know white collar crime is being punished. And number three, I think you know that people are learning that keeping it simple is maybe the way to go, and you don't need this level of complexity, and I think total transparency is the way forward. So look sorry for bringing a scandal off, but it's definitely newsworthy in Ireland at the moment.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. Really, really interesting. Carl, it's kind of we've discussed this sort of thing many times in the past, this idea of sophistication, high net worth clients, you're, I'm high net worth, your high net worth. So we need some sophisticated leverage, honey, property, all that stuff. Yeah, and offering a plain vanilla global index fund. That's, that's for everyone else. Yes,

Andy Hart:

so easy. They must be laughing in the back room going, I can't believe no one signed up. It's so easy, isn't it? I mean, that's, it's an exclusive list. You've made the car high net worth.

Unknown:

But it's, that is the definition of a Ponzi scheme, right? Well,

Carl Widger:

if you read, read this article, that's exactly what this seemed to be. And it was like, Oh, we've a problem in this one here. Let's take the money from this one here and put it over here and not tell anybody.

Unknown:

No, no, no governance. No one looking at how client money is held into segregated accounts. So whoever, and it was this recommended by advisors? Carl, yeah, okay, okay, all right, moving on. So no, hang on. I just want to say something else, that you're in the in the UK, we've got this financial services compensation scheme, all right, yeah, is there a sort of safety net

Carl Widger:

in Ireland? Yeah, and I do, I'm trying to remember, but I do believe that the investor compensation scheme did kick in for some of these clients, which leads me then to believe that these were, for some reason, a regulated activity. Certainly now that would not be a regulated Yeah, maybe something has changed kind of along the way. Now I might be, I'm trying to remember back 15 years here, right? So, so don't be at me people if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty

Nick Lincoln:

sure we can cop,

Carl Widger:

yeah, yeah, no. My weekend was very good, actually, very, very good. I'll touch on that on the culture corner later on. But okay, yeah, no, so I that wouldn't definitely not be the case. Now Alan, that would not be a regulated activity. So look, I think the big thing about these is, you know, these, these are all fine and dandy when they're going well. But if the last one, you just need the last one to go pear shaped, and everything goes pear shaped. And that the way these

Unknown:

things, you know, it just, it reminds me. Remember a couple of years ago in the UK guys, there was, there was something called, I think, London capital and finance mini bonds, which is another, I mean, it was a different, but another scam scandal. People lost millions. Although I was always sort of intrigued, because it was, it was a kind of unregulated, I don't think any advisors recommended it. It was. They had a huge marketing direct to consumer director, classic one, offering whatever it was, I can't remember, 10% 7% you know, some ridiculously high rate, guaranteed, blah, blah, blah, inevitably it goes tits up, they but they were covered by the FSCS, which I never understood. It's kind of unregulated non FCA. And yet, all of us who contribute to this safety net effectively had to build people up.

Andy Hart:

They advertised heavily in all of the known national newspapers, and then, obviously, when it went belly up, the known national newspapers reported about it, but they didn't say. You know, on page 37 three months ago, you know, we got paid 10 grand per day to shift this stuff. It's insane.

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, yes, it's a bad story car, but I mean, at least, as you say, white collar crime, white collar crime, in this case, is being punished, and hopefully it just sets down a market. And I think over the years, these things tend to happen less frequent than they did. Say 30 years ago, for sure, you know, so if you can take any, any, any benefit from the world we're in now, it's that. It's not as wild or west as it was, but it's still terrible.

Andy Hart:

I wouldn't remember, sorry. Is that right? Alan, is that? Was that what it was 30 years

Unknown:

ago? Yes, I was working then I was working there. I was born. Yeah, before you were born,

Nick Lincoln:

treating you? Andrew, yeah, I

Unknown:

was going to be the middle age, the oldest millennial in

Andy Hart:

the world, the oldest millennial by like, two months. I love it when I speak to people like these millennials. They're a bloody night, man. Oh yeah, bloody nightmare.

Unknown:

That's right, yes, you are okay.

Nick Lincoln:

Moving on. Who's next? It's ultra. It's ultra. With something about fintech. This

Andy Hart:

is, this is a good news story. I don't know if you boys are aware of this company called fintel, previously known as the simply biz group. I think they had a bit of a name change. They're incredibly acquisitive. It means buying companies Nick and they've just come out with the latest results. Their increase of turnover has been great. Their turnover has gone from 56 million to 68 million. They bought four companies last year. That was in terms of actually acquired the companies 360 services. So they've got simply bizan 360 now, which is a huge percentage of the compliance support in the UK. IFA dash, who I've not heard of, Owen James, which is sort of an events company that I think haven't spoken at, synaptic, they've got about, you know, 10 or 15 companies now that, you know, a lot of financial advisors use all the time, and they're also investing, you know, sort of early stage, with quite a lot of companies we know as well. So, yeah, I just thought I'd flag them fintel. They're, sort of, they're a listed company as well. So you can, yeah, you can see how they're doing on, I think, on the aim, yeah, they're worth about 300 million, if I'm not mistaken, yeah, just thought I'd mention it. Yeah, they come out the results. They're, as I say, very acquisitive, doing well, I didn't know for yeah,

Unknown:

I've, I've, I'm almost as boring as you are. Andy, when they meet, when they announced some results of what, a few months ago, I actually watched the CEO, you know, announcing results. Tim Timmons, Timmons, yeah, he's definitely simply biz, or was, yeah, yeah, simply. That's the the kind of origin of the organization. But they've clearly, they've got a listing, they've got a name listing, which means they've got access to capital, I presume, the deep pockets, and you're right from where I'm sitting there, out there, hoovering up, kind of, I would say, all the support services. They're not, they're not acquisitive in terms of buying investment connected stuff, which is kind of the money research data are our rmsr or something like that, another kind of research company, Spencer. Spencer. Okay, anyway, so it's actually the entire ecosystem, from

Andy Hart:

research, compliance, support services. Yeah, they're doing a massive roll up, and who knows where they're going next. They were also in the paper this week saying that they're going to invest in, you know, sort of AI type, aggressive technology companies. So yeah, they're going to be one

Unknown:

to watch, one to watch. Yeah, let's watch Nicholas.

Nick Lincoln:

I can show you well.

Andy Hart:

You, you, you contributed a lot to the early growth of this company. Nick, with your simply biz? Yeah, you were with simply biz for about 15 years. Nick,

Nick Lincoln:

I was with simply biz for about 15 years. Nick, is about right. Yeah, I had lunch once with Sir Ken. Davey just gave him some tips.

Unknown:

ROP, Ken, I believe he's passed away. I

Nick Lincoln:

believe he might want to send some flowers to his wife.

Unknown:

Oh, my Lord. I

Nick Lincoln:

am sure you can google it while I go on to the next item. Hold on chat,

Unknown:

a story. For another time when we sent flowers to a client that we thought had passed away alive. And well, there

Carl Widger:

was a, there was a Bulgarian Premier League football match last week, and then a minute minute silence for a former player who was alive. And well,

Nick Lincoln:

that really is a cock. How do they get to that stage without someone just thinking, Should we just

Carl Widger:

somebody, somebody in the club looked at it on Facebook and said, Oh, he was a legend around these parts. And then during the match, the family said, Hey, did you have a minute silence for our dad? He's sorry with that on.

Unknown:

Behalf of the trap pack, I'd like to apologize to Sir Ken. Wish you a long and happy life, right? There's a similar guy that set up a company

Nick Lincoln:

stop digging, right? Storyteller, storyteller, now you've got a good news story here, but it's, it's almost too good to be true.

Unknown:

I just we haven't. We've been speaking quite a lot in the past. And Carl, you'd be aware of this, this kind of big scandal, potential scandal, that broke about this. And the first time it really hit the news was when our friends, St James's place were fined or no. So they weren't fine. They were. They had to reserve the thick end of half a billion pounds to effectively pay our compensation for clients for whom they've been charging for ongoing services who hadn't received ongoing services. So if you remember this about, was it about a year ago, just over the share price, literally half it just absolutely collapsed, put the money aside, and then ever since then, they've been rebuilding. But that was always deemed to be the first of many the regulator, the FCA, was then going to go in, and as I understand it, they issued these famous, dear CEO letters to the top 22 advice firms by revenue. And we were all, we're predicting absolute carnage, because there was no way that SJP were going to be the only ones to have been guilty of this sort of thing. Anyway. Fast forward to now. The FCA have completed their review and said, No, everything's absolutely fine. There is only, and they quote, there's only 2% of clients in their analysis have not received full reviews, full detailed, up to date reviews, and that is, you know, perfectly reasonable, which I think it is, because clients are away, clients got other things going on, and they can't necessarily always pitch up for an annual review. So on sort of first view that is very positive. So effectively, because we were all assuming this is just going to be such so so damaging for our sector, for our profession, it's going to be front page news, but it's like nothing to see here. Boys and girls, everything is

Carl Widger:

fine. The big consolidators are having an absolute party. So going

Unknown:

completely I'm just going to say, who knows? There's obviously a review has taken place. They've had all the data and the analysis. I just got to say I've been around a long time, as Andy keeps reminding me, intuitively, that feels a bit odd. The SJP were the only firm that were guilty of not delivering to the extent that they were supposed to do everyone else, everyone else in the industry was absolutely spot on. Had been doing the work. I mean, I don't want to use the word cover up, but there's a lot of money at stake here. There's a lot of press, PR, you know, and I don't know I'm throwing it's a while since we've had a

Carl Widger:

conspiracy. James' place, they parked money in case there was an issue or a fine, correct? Yes, they

Unknown:

set it aside. But the FCA to be huge.

Carl Widger:

The FCA didn't find against them, did they? Is that? No, no,

Andy Hart:

the FCA weren't the one that picked it up with SJP. I think it was in terms,

Unknown:

it was part it knows, but it was part of an ongoing review feedback. I've heard a lot of it. A lot of it was down to, yeah, there's no doubt that some clients missed out on this service, but I think a high proportion is down to poor record keeping. I'm no expert, but if people have told me that SGP, I can't remember if they started to use Salesforce or they were using Salesforce, but the system wasn't very good. So whereas some people were having reviews, it was it was never documented. And as they say in compliance land, it's not written down. It didn't happen. So that was a big challenge or problem. Very interesting. Yeah, very interesting. It seems that. I mean, what do you what do you think? Andy, do you think

Carl Widger:

you believe it's a cover up anyway? Alan, just to be clear,

Unknown:

I'm throwing it out there, looking for a bit of support.

Nick Lincoln:

We're not getting any. Well, say, Why? Why would there be a cover up in whose benefit?

Unknown:

I don't know. I just this. This with our with the government, we're in power right now. I know that, you know, our chancellor has been having meetings, you know, publicly disclosed, with regulators and sort of saying, Look, we need to just loosen up things a little bit here. You know, with the country is under some pressure, somewhat fiscally, financially, etc. And we could probably all do without a major scandal, huge fines. People, you know, avoiding saving people thinking that financial services is a rip off, etc. And maybe there people are encouraged to earn a side of caution. Who knows? No doubt there is, you know, people can access the reviews, but that, you know, at the end of the day, only 2% of clients hadn't been receiving it and had been paying for, for, for the service. So, you know, it's net. Net. It is positive. Let's say, let's face it. Andy, yeah,

Andy Hart:

I'm absolutely blown away by this finding. I thought this was going to be the biggest story ever to hit in my entire career. Yeah, you know, I run a you. Tiny business where I'd look after about 40 families and the work to service them properly through proper financial planning, annual planning meetings set in the diary is a shed load. The other thing I think, you know, incentives drive behavior. Most of these big firms are incentivized to take on new money. That's where they get paid the most, let's say. So their focus is on new business and not really servicing their existing client bank. So I think they are a bit more ad hoc with their annual planning meetings when things rock up or the client wants to see them. I don't think they're as strict as I am with having a spreadsheet that I look at every single day and work out they've been seen outstanding jobs. Who needs to do this? But if that's what the regulators concluded after going in there and, you know, ripping up the floorboards, then fine. But to say that 98% of clients are getting an ongoing service sounds astronomical to me.

Unknown:

I'd heard on very good authority from two different senior people at some at within these top 22 companies that will all are one, I think, were the subject of a section 166 review, which is the proper the appoint, you know, McKinsey or Accenture, these consultant companies to go in and literally, you know, rip up, not unless you want again, yes, it's definitely not what anyone's any of us want, but that's what was going to happen. I was thinking, Well, if you appointed some expensive independent third party, and it's kind of in their interest to find something, in a way, and they've all, they've had these, these orders applied, and said, No, everything is wonderful. Doesn't sound right.

Andy Hart:

I'm also wondering what the checklist was. Was it like an updated attitude to risk just to keep it so I know that sort of thing that they look for, and they're saying things like an update to their plan. Well, you can only do that using proper, you know, cash flow planning, financial planning, so Well,

Unknown:

not necessarily. They haven't. They haven't made they

Andy Hart:

say that things, yeah, is one of the things. And would they want to see a rebalance done in the portfolio? Changes to the direct debits? These are all the things that rock up. You know,

Carl Widger:

you could, kind of, you could update a cash flow plan by updating policy, investment, policy, values, and not, not anything else, and then call it an update to your plan, but you've but you've got to screenshot and send

Unknown:

a client. You've got to determine for the client, what if anything has changed. Yeah, it's also appropriate to be putting my pensions to I

Carl Widger:

know what real financial planning is, but in terms of taking a compliance box, maybe that's, maybe that's

Unknown:

what I'm saying, is you need data So little things like how much cash does the client hold on deposit in their savings account? That could be double or half what you had last year? And unless you, and you don't have access to that at this stage,

Andy Hart:

if I walked up to these 22 firms and said, right, give me 10 random clients that you've had for eight years, and I see the Smith case, you know, 2015 annual planning meeting. 2016, 17, yeah, I think no chance, absolutely no chance. It would just be everywhere. Where's the calendar entry? When did you meet him? Oh, we just had a phone call when you know, but we do all of our meetings face to face. But that annual planning meeting was a fun just be everyone, just Yeah, messing Yeah, messing around and covering their asses. But anyway, that's the conclusion from the regulator, and they've used very, like, soft language, like, yeah, the FCA have left up to firms to consider their findings and take action where appropriate. So they've not been,

Unknown:

yeah, they must

Andy Hart:

have other stuff to worry about. They're like, right? Everyone, we don't want to spend, we don't want 50 people spending their entire career, yeah, unraveling this mess. We've got other big things to worry about. So there might be a big thing coming out in like, you know, three months that they've been working on. Well,

Unknown:

they've also said this idea of, you know, does it have to be annual? And I just read something the other day said, no, no, no, this is the FCA, no, it doesn't have to be annual. It's up to you to decide how regularly. So they've gone from in a funny way, I feel a bit sorry for SJP. There you go, right punched in the face by all this had, you know, the worst publicity you could ever imagine, and all of a sudden, everyone else, no nothing. You could do whatever you want. You can see them every two or three years, power of the dark side.

Carl Widger:

Yeah, they I'm telling you. I said it at the time, SGP will be the better for it in the long term. Oh, for sure. Okay,

Nick Lincoln:

well, let's just take the positives from it. If only 2% of clients didn't receive a full annual review, we'll take it at face value. I think what we're saying between the lines is it there's a vast disparity between what we would consider a full annual review and what the FCA thinks is acceptable as a full compliance okay. So moving on. And it's me okay, the quick one another sort of negative story. I'm sorry. TRAPPIST, we tend to be beacons optimism. But there's a, there's a lot of shit going around. Crispin Odie. Crispin Odie, which is not some island in the in the south, Galactus, crinodis, a human being, well, sort of, he's a fund manager. Was one of these stars. Our fund managers in the 2000s the noises. He ran one of the top European active funds, and he made some very successful bets. He bet that the banking crisis was going to happen before the event. And then in April 2009 he thought the markets weren't going to go any lower, and he plowed back in. And of course, he came out and he came and he went back in perfect time. There's also a litany of other things that he got wrong as well over time. So let's just bounce out. But he was for a while, a star in quotes, fund manager. Well, he's just been effectively struck off by the FCA, banned by the FCA. He's got various allegations against him of a not particularly pleasant nature, against I think it's about 20 females. Now, this is all still sub judice or whatever, but, I mean, that's, that's a lot of that's a lot of smoke, not so many fire. And the guy tried to cover up internal investigations into these allegations against him, acted badly. So another, another fallen idol, interesting guy. I mean, the Wikipedia thing I had look at that his his grandfather was an MP and a renowned bully. Crispin odie's father went bankrupt when Crispin was about 18, and Crispin Odie described his own father as a complete, wasteful so he's obviously got something in the jeans. But there we go. Another one bites the dust.

Alan Smith:

Do you know it's I always thought, I've, I'd heard of him and his company, OD Asset Management years, years and years ago, and always thought, because they branded themselves as a hedge fund, I was so well, that's not really my world. I didn't pay much attention to it. But then a few years ago, I started receiving let because I live in an affluent postcode, voice, as you know, but I started getting letters South pitching, you know, you know, as to retail pumps, they were doing mass mailings, which I thought was a

Nick Lincoln:

bit odd. I mean, that's a red flag, isn't that? Supporting one

Unknown:

free the but the letter was, I love it. I kept it. This includes a brochure. Back to this thing Carl was talking about a minute ago, sophisticated investors high net worth. If you receive that, you think, Oh, who are these? Because, you know, gold embossed, thick card inviting to a, you know, a presentation, a seminar, or something like that. No question, some people would have gotten onto that, and they would have told such a wonderful story. And of course, they would have always talked about that time when he, where he, when he got it right, when he best, yeah, against the for sure, the pound, or whatever it was, and forgotten all the other times that he got it wrong. But no, there you go. Fall, fall of a once, once High Flying Star. I think at one

Andy Hart:

point they were looking after 13 billion or close to 13 billion pounds of dollars. I mean, he's obviously made a few quid over the years, isn't he, so he's still worth hundreds of millions. So we can, he can sort of be strong

Unknown:

his wife or now, I think his ex wife also was CEO of, I can't remember. Jupiter wasn't

Nick Lincoln:

Nicola P, E, A, S, E, yeah, yeah. They always, they all swim in the same circles, don't they? That's why fingers no longer.

Andy Hart:

He's got a cracking name, Crispin Odie. You can't be that name, cracking name. He

Nick Lincoln:

was gonna launch a US fund. It was gonna be called ODS, but it didn't quite well, sorry, just got breaking news coming through on the teleprompter two days ago. How to Fill Huddersfield giants rugby league team bought a new stadium. They're owned by second who's alive and well, okay, back in the real

Unknown:

world, cheese. Controversial episodes.

Nick Lincoln:

Oh my god, we're just rubbing people out right. Okay, watch No.

Unknown:

Please watch Yes. Save us from this. Please

Carl Widger:

help me. What's the

Nick Lincoln:

next item the need for, the need for long term planning and probably podcast organization,

Carl Widger:

Stuart Fitzgerald got to know this guy a little bit over the last couple of years. He's the managing partner in a county consultancy, tax advisory firm called he definitely could be classed as that right now, but he writes for the currency, and he does kind of longer form stuff, and it's about once a month. But this one is really, really good, because he's making the point, right? That was, that was never, yeah, I had

Nick Lincoln:

a breakdown. Another one. But

Carl Widger:

he's writing about the need for long term planning when we are in a sweet spot right now, understanding that we won't be always and that we're kind of getting in our own way. I think he says that, you know, there's some planning decisions being made that are just nonsensical. You know, we're refusing planning for data centers, which is like, you know, oh, cause it's the multinationals, and let's fund the SMEs. And he makes a great point. And I have actually said that that, and I was kind of, I had to take a step back and go, that's a really good point. Stuart makes that look, if the multinationals are thriving, it's going to generate a lot of business for the SMEs, who will kind of, you know, get business from those multinationals. So I just thought, you know, really, really, we. We have a, as he puts it, a dysfunctional planning system here. And it was a really well thought out and a really well written club. Happened,

Andy Hart:

yeah? So country has a, an awesome planning Yeah,

Carl Widger:

but it's, it's costing us badly because we don't have enough homes for people, and then we're turning down, you know, stay, you know, planning that we, you know, we, we know that these data centers are taking a lot of energy. We know that it's not very green. But hey, you know what? It would ensure that we will thrive for a little bit longer. And surely that would be a good idea, isn't it? Always the

Andy Hart:

NIMBY the NIMBY problems, the biggest problem for getting developments done. You asked 10 people on the street, do we need more houses built? Yeah, 100% 100% build build them. Build build them. Build them. Oh, we build them next door to you. Oh, don't build them to me. Then I copy them there. You know, it's the classic, yeah, the NIMBY problems, the biggest problem

Carl Widger:

in planning. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, well worth reading Stuart article in the currency, I would say, okay,

Nick Lincoln:

great stuff. And of course, there's a link to that in the so called show notes, as there are for all of these topical tit bits. Okay, Ultra, some happiness coming back into the

Andy Hart:

show. Yeah, this is a subject close to your heart. Is it a nick happy countries? So what the the rankings has just come out for the happiest countries in the world. You boys, have you clicked the link? Do you want to hazard a

Unknown:

guess of which I want to click to Longford

Nick Lincoln:

country. Watford should be a separate should be carved out. I'd love that

Unknown:

the Republican like the Vatican City, yeah. City, king of Watford, North Nick. I can tell you what it's going to be. Is going to be Finland, Denmark, Sweden, blah, blah, all this. Yeah, maybe countries at the top. Yeah, Ireland, Ireland, Ireland, way down.

Andy Hart:

So number one is Finland, for the eighth year running,

Carl Widger:

in darkness half the time. Yeah, yeah.

Andy Hart:

They've got sad problem, and they seem effective this year, but they seem to come out happiness on everything. Maybe that's

Nick Lincoln:

impossible, Sweden's got one the highest suicide rates in the world. So

Unknown:

is Finland, yeah, pinch of salt, yeah, all the time,

Nick Lincoln:

exactly.

Carl Widger:

We live in gray all the time, right? I think gray is

Nick Lincoln:

worse than dark, actually,

Unknown:

yeah, whatever. I'm having a bad day. Get the Weather app. Weather app out and look for Limerick. It was cheers, because it's just it's in there from previous visits. Pretty good. So where's Finland? Finland

Andy Hart:

number one, DeMont number two, number one, demo number two. Iceland number three. Then it's Sweden, Netherlands, Costa, Rica, Norway, Israel, luster, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Belgium. You're just reading it. This is great. Yes, right? Very

Carl Widger:

interesting place. I like every time I read about that place, isn't it? Oh, yeah, Costa, yeah, it sounds awesome, yeah.

Andy Hart:

Anyway, Ireland of 15, the UK is in position 23 the US is position 24 and Afghanistan, unfortunately, is the final country. So, yeah,

Carl Widger:

they're 21

Andy Hart:

just about the UK. They're working their way up. Anyway, nothing, nothing to do. Yeah. So the Scandinavian countries are the happiest, the highest taxed. Anyway,

Carl Widger:

I've never been to any of the Scandinavian countries. I must go and visit and see. What is it? Is it Iceland?

Unknown:

Yeah.

Nick Lincoln:

Trap trip. Get over.

Carl Widger:

We go to Sweden. You've connections there. I have

Unknown:

one or two. Yeah. Presently, anyway,

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, watch go open sex.

Carl Widger:

I got a giggle out of this. This report, right? So, so sorry, Nick, can you just read out what was the What's the title of the report? I don't have it here in front of me, buddy,

Nick Lincoln:

lowering our S, p5, 100 EPs and valuation forecasts as the male percent. Maleficent, seven. Yeah, index the brink of correction, as opposed

Carl Widger:

to basically, I got a giggle out of this, which is why I clicked on the link both recent Maleficent, no, it's

Nick Lincoln:

not malfeasant. It's a made up word. That's why Maleficent

Carl Widger:

the opposite of the Magnificent Seven, right? Exactly. They're calling it the Maleficent seven. Now, word, there's a it is, but good it is. Come on. It's a movie, a kids movie, and my daughter's loved it, so, yeah, anyway, that's

Unknown:

the Magnificent Seven. No.

Carl Widger:

Maleficent, no.

Nick Lincoln:

It's a film. It's a film. It's a film that came out 2014 but it's not a word. It's just, it's just a title of a movie to the point, this is the this is what the TRAPPIST listen to. This is what they tune Jesus

Carl Widger:

Christ, Eddie so

Andy Hart:

they've changed their tune. If they Goldman Sachs, they're saying.

Carl Widger:

So two things about this. Is like, oh, there's a little bit of a blip in the market. So we're gonna that, that prediction that we came out with in January, just a short couple of we're gonna change that now, because, right? So that's the first thing. But there are, kind of, there are some, there's some cool charts in this, right? Yeah, and it just shows, it just shows the S P, return, the S P, with the Maleficent seven, and then the s the S p4, 93 so there's kind of cool charts showing the downward spiral of the Maleficent seven, but then it just shows from a 52 week high, right? And that's actually, that's, that's amazing reading. And my friend Elon's Tesla is down 52% from its peak. But you've got Nvidia down 27% Google down 21% Amazon 18, Microsoft 18. So there's some cool charts in there, actually, which are worth, you know, for just discussion points. And just for if you have an interest in this stuff, there are some cool charts. But I was drawn to it because they're going, Oh yeah, the prediction from a couple of months ago. We're changing that now, because the market has said we should change that

Nick Lincoln:

just shows as ever as well. I will put that PDF. Oh, thank you for that. Just shows the benefits of diversification. Yeah. Again, own the world. Man, own the 100% Yeah,

Andy Hart:

in the world. Yeah. Okay, nice stuff. Oh yeah. This is just a discussion point. I don't know if you gentlemen are feeling this as well, but the normal correct following on from Carl's point, the normal correction of 2025, I'm just a bit amazed at how it's impacted quite a few people that I thought would just be quite blase about it. This is, you know, friends, family, clients. It's interesting. I mean, every time the market declines, there's a correction we're in correction territory, which is minus 10. When it goes to minus 20, it's a bear market. You know, obviously these are just words that you know mean nothing or mean a lot. And it's crazy that you know, they've had year, you know, two amazing years the markets have been flying. This recent decline is is a tiny blip in the top right corner. But yeah, I feel like I'm having to discuss this a bit more with general people.

Nick Lincoln:

Nicholas, yes, well said ultra I looked this morning, actually. Bizarre. Is just, I mean, the s, p is now down from the from this peak. It sounds 7.6% eight. I mean, just nothing, nothing, really.

Andy Hart:

And I just think, I think it was down at 1011, at 1.2 strong days back. Irrelevant,

Nick Lincoln:

yeah. But this, this all just this, this. I mean, I hold it this. This is great audio content for the people listening in their ears. But I'm holding them up, you know, we've all got these bloody devices now, these, these things, you know, and they're not going away. The mobile phone, the social media, everything else, the relentless news, the notifications, the pushes, the nudges, the vibrations, yeah. So I just think this will be ever so, and this will be our, the human condition going forward, and it'll be just worse going forward. So 50 years ago, you'd have to buy the FT the next the day after the event of work out what was going on, sure, and most people didn't buy the FT 50 years ago. So, and it's short, you know, maybe new, it's just the nature of the beast that we've created. And God, God, God, help us. We get a lot, a temporary decline of some magnitude that we all know we're overdue, whatever that means in quotes, is it? But you know, it's out there, because Christ, on a bike, it's going to be bed wetting on a monumental scale. And again, that's where we earn our corn. So in a way, it's bad, because I think, I think the relentless media and the news and the ability just to look at your portfolio with a couple of clicks is bad, selfishly, for us as behavioral counselors, it's fantastic, because our calling is needed more

Andy Hart:

than ever. Yeah, our job is certainly never done, and the corrections in the social media range, you're right. It's just nobody's saying, but we've had a great couple of years. It's a buying opportunity. I can't wait to stick my cash in. They're saying, Oh, it's just losing everything. He might like the words they use, I'm just like again. They're not insiders, they're not professionals. But these are somewhat experienced. Some of them are experienced in better why is this one spooking you? So let's talk about it. Last episode, didn't we emergency podcasts? But I think, yeah, but I but I think it might be because what's happening in the world. And obviously they're thinking the world that's a terrible and then my portfolio is impacted. Whereas before they had something like cognitive dissonance, they're like, oh, it's going to be bad. Trump's in, but the market's flying. That doesn't quite make sense. Now, when the market's coming down, that I reconfirmed it for me, the world's terrible. My portfolio is terrible. I need to act. What do I do? Andy, anyway. Cole, yeah.

Carl Widger:

Great point, because I'm feeling the same, right, that this seems to be getting a lot more press locally and actual social media press than usual. I think, though, exactly the point you just made there at the end, it's the geopolitical stuff that's happening is force. This to the top of every screen we look at. So I think, yeah, that that's not going to change anytime soon is that that's, that's kind of

Unknown:

goes, but this goes always geopolitical stuff at

Carl Widger:

the moment. Alan, I think what's happening in the US is different than what we have experienced in before. So just the way it's going to be, and we have these tariffs coming up soon, so that will probably keep all of this top of the agenda. I heard a really good thing that the last three letters of tariffs, FFS. So yeah, there you go. They're gonna have a Ireland's Ireland wouldn't enjoy tariffs.

Unknown:

Google it first. Yes. You guys familiar with concept of the hedonic treadmill? Yes, so called and hedonic Yeah, yeah. So I think that's applying here

Andy Hart:

Alan. Some people might not be aware of the hedonic

Unknown:

treadmill. The concept of the hedonic treadmill is just a sort of a psychological concept that whatever, whatever progress you've made in life is you is quickly your new normal. So you get a big pay rise your blood. You're absolutely thrilled with a pay rise for the first month, for half an hour, six months, and then it's just normal. And then you just pissed off that you're not getting another pay rise. You get a new car. You absolutely love this car. You're swanning around town, and then it's just your car. And so the human being adjusts very rapidly to whatever progress and success they've had in their life, and it's just the new normal. And then they begin to be a bit dissatisfied when you look at the run up to the equity markets have enjoyed to last. I mean, got 15 years really. Yeah, everyone should be absolutely just thrilled the fact that now and everything is then judged from the last market peak, the highest ever position in the history of the world, yeah, or the global actor, Mark, or whatever you want to call it, and it goes off a few percentage points. I mean, compared to where you were a year ago, three years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, you are living the dream investors. You know, this is insanely good.

Andy Hart:

It's also loss aversion, an astronomical scale. Loss Aversion used to be the losses feel twice as worse as the gains. Okay, it's five times. Now you can give someone 500% and then if it goes down 50% or whatever. You give them 100% it goes down like 20. They feel it like everyone

Unknown:

is a huge subject, actually, if you think about because it was, if you remember, it was 2009 where markets turned after the great financial crisis, good from 2007 through to march, 2009

Andy Hart:

right? That's 666, and it hits 666, intraday,

Unknown:

I know. And look where, look where it is now, and what you have got is you've got a lot of people. I mean, when do people start seriously investing probably not till their 40s. So it's a huge amount of the population they've only ever seen upwards. And so they get used to it. So 10% a year is what I've come to expect. At least 10% Never mind if I only get 4% or 5% that would be shocking, and God forbid, I got a temporary market correction of 7% over a couple of months. It's like the world is ending. I think just people have become used to it, and they expect high returns. Every time, as you say, Nick, they flip out their phone and you see the little green sign, little green arrow going up. Yep, that's maybe good for the day. And all of a sudden they're seeing a few red graphs. And very temporarily, as we always say, if they zoomed out even 12 months, the graphs would all be, could be green, but they're concentrating in the last couple of months, couple of weeks, or even few hours. So it's an interesting psychological kind of experiment, because we've never had this. We've never had such a lengthy, effectively Bull Run. And so it's a huge percentage of the population is never experienced and significant long, you know, proper bear market, a real 30, 40% decline. It stays low for, you know, a year or two.

Carl Widger:

Yeah, as for the poor folks who went into bitcoin anyway, let's not go

Nick Lincoln:

there in the most recent episode of the all in podcast, yeah, that was good math. Probably put the kettle on. Made it. Had a really good he made a really good point about this. He said that people don't you took, you can talk about 30, 40% decline in your investments until you experience that. Yeah. Stomach punch. You're never going to know how you're going to be able to handle it. And I thought that's a very prescient point sort of thing, we say. But it was in that, in that particular show, the hedonic treadmill, I've just taken on the last few months, taken on board a very, very nice couple, but ultra high six, ultra high earners. You know, the he works for management big one of these management consultancy firms. She is a partner now at one of the big four, and they're just real overachievers. And I said to them, but they spend money like you wouldn't believe how they spend money. And I said, you know, you don't take this the wrong way. I'm not, I'm not going to lecture you, but you know, have you ever heard of the hedonic treadmill? And I explained it to them, and I said, you know, especially it's buying things you don't need. With money. You don't have to impress people you don't like. And she absolutely loved it. She repeats the phrase, we want to get off this hedonic treadmill. So, you know, it's this, throw these things out there. And sometimes they just land with people. They just, they just think, yeah, that, you know, that is us, and we need to, we just need to buy you Nick like the other well, that's not the story, actually, but I spoke from this morning, bizarre. That's why they're front of mine. Okie dokie, right. So we're at 40 Christ on our bike. 45 minutes of this. Let's do the final topical tip bit with Oh smooth. Manage fun storyteller, you are taking us out of topical tip. It's on our high, on

Unknown:

our high, baby, we go. We've touched on this in the past, but I just saw, I saw this an advertisement, quite interesting. So the Aviva, uh, smoothed managed life fund s4 whatever that means, just celebrate series four. Series four. That's it. Thank you. Carl, I don't know what happened to series one, two and three, but we don't talk about that. Yeah.

Nick Lincoln:

Performance. Just just dropped away from the

Unknown:

pretend they didn't happen. Let's start a new one. Anyway. There's just, it's just celebrated its sixth year anniversary. And it is quite interesting the numbers that they quote. So there are, there are an estimated 1527 working days of trading in that last and think so something might have happened within the last six years which might have affected investment returns, at least temporarily, if you cast your mind back, it has only had in that period, in those 1527 trading days, there were only four Days. Count them, 1234, on which they couldn't apply a positive daily increase due to market conditions. So otherwise it stayed flat. Didn't go down. Stay flat for four days out of 1500 days over the last six years. So it's magic. It's very creative accounting. Shall we say? It is not to use the kind of this, the private equity type, people, it's not marked to market. The underlying assets clearly have periods where they fell in the last six years. But I tell you what? As a as a magic trick, as a psychological trick, I can see this attraction. I can if you, if you go and tell your clients, this fund has only, it's only it's basically never gone down. It's only ever gone up.

Andy Hart:

No, it went down in 2022 I'm looking at the fact sheet, went down by 5% that would have been

Unknown:

not according to this, it's advertisement. It says we only had four days. Why the increase? Well, I don't know if actually, it shows the underlying assets, but the actual fund, it does. It's basically a 50% global equity, right? So the, of course, the underlying assets are all over the place. But if you are going back to if you are going online and checking your phone and you're invested in that fund, you're only ever going to see green lines and positive upside. So as I say, and this, you know, we talked about it in the past. It's a kind of modern day with profits. Fund never actually goes down significantly. The underlying assets, of course, go down, but in terms of its reported unit price, because it has the whole point that, you know, the secret isn't the word smoothing. It has a smoothing mechanism. I'm

Andy Hart:

first, I'm looking at the smooth manage. I think pension fund. There's life.

Unknown:

This is the life fund. I know. Why would be any different? But right? I mean literally, reading it from the funds. What's the conclusions? Conclusion, Emma, you tell me it's what? Why? Yeah, why don't we all recommend these funds? I mean,

Nick Lincoln:

I did watch the advert, and then at the end it says only available via the Aviva onshore bond. And I thought, oh, even better. So you've got this crappy fund within a crappy tax wrapper. This live funds done a lot worse than the pension fund, sorry. Gordon, well, that's a 20% internal tax, maybe notionally taken off life funds. Look it up. Andy, next to MBOs. Google it. Google it. Okay, yeah, they're not. You give up some of the permanent advance to master temporary declines. It's they're just a just

Unknown:

trick. Yeah.

Nick Lincoln:

Listeners, so be it. Okay, gents, we're nearly at 15 minutes. We've given topical tidbits on episode 67 a damn good thrashing. I think it's time you move on to what many people call the meat and potatoes of episode 67 which is industry events. Is the catch all title we've got for that, which covers a range of ills, industry events. What could that be? There could be an online webinar. It could be an all day conference. It could be just drinks with your peers. Yes, however you define industry events, but what do we go to? What don't we go to? What value do we get from them? And how is ultra going to get a CPD for this year? You lead officer.

Andy Hart:

Okay, so we're discussing industry events. I think we're gonna have a bit of a focus on conferences. So these are prolific in the profession of financial advice. I've been financial advisor, mortgage broker for about 22 years, and since the day I entered, it was the day I was going to events back in the day it was all. Just face to face events, where you rock up to some random hotel a load of old blokes with hair hanging out of their noses with a couple of presentations, and then you sit there and think, Is this the standard of mortgage brokers and financial advisors? No joking aside, some of them are useful. Some of them are less so. We've changed much then hasn't changed much, nose hair and ill fitting suits and bad slides, yeah, how was, how was the conference at Andy? Yeah, cracking. So we've evolved a bit. Now we've got webinars, which are obviously things you just watch and you're not interactive. Sometimes we have online we have online training. As an example, me and Nick have our Nick and I Nick and I have a void User Group, which, which is, you know, the advancements of technology. So we have, you know, 100 people via zoom in all different places, you know, around the country, zooming in. So we've got those type of events, and then we've got the other events, which are conferences, and we have, I suppose we have other events that are sort of two three hours, like transact, do like their connect events. And some of the fund houses and investment companies and technology companies have two three hour events. Then we have whole day conferences. And then we have, we've got a couple of two day conferences. And I know obviously the conference space in the US, let's say, is a leading light when it comes to financial advisor conferences. They have the infrastructure for it. Usually, they have the weather. They have 1000s of people. You know, they have the correct infrastructure set up to host these enormous events. I've I've dabbled in with them in the past. When you first come into this business, the events are amazing. I used to literally go to, you know, an event when I was six months a year into this business. I'd literally write six pages of handwritten notes, and I'd go back to the office or whatever, and I'd implement a lot of the stuff that was, the notes and ideas that I've received nowadays I go and if I write down, you know, not, you know, it's just because I've been a bit experienced in this, in this profession, if I write down one of two things, it's been a good day. And sometimes that's the case. Sometimes that's not the case. The IFP used to be a big conference in Cardiff. I went there quite a lot of times. Uh, Celtic Manor. That was like a three day event. You rock up on Sunday, you drive home on Wednesday, and that was the sort of big event. But at the time, I wasn't that busy. Didn't have kids, and I could, I could go there and, you know, muck about for a couple of days and obviously, learn stuff. So the other thing, just to sprinkle in before we get going. CPD, that is the carrot that a lot of people attend events for we've got to do, I don't know, 4035 hours a year. 21 structured needs to be like something official with learning objectives and other stuff. And often that is the carrot, the investment tech, you know, planning companies sort of lead with so it's a bit of a mix. Usually the best ideas are from the other people there totally during the coffee breaks during the lunch breaks. The Holy Grail for a superb conference is cracking content on the stage and then amazing networking opportunities during the tea breaks, coffee breaks and lunch time. I obviously do run a conference humans under management this year in Cape Town and London. It's going to be the 16th and 17th show. So I've got quite a lot of experience in this space. So Right? I've spoken enough. Who's next? Thank you. Thank you, Nick

Unknown:

Andy, the ultra crippenarian. Andy, he knows about everything, and he can't be told anything. His name is Andrew Hart, Andrew,

Andy Hart:

I've missed that, Nick, I've missed that, right? You to you. Nicholas, oh,

Nick Lincoln:

I'm not ready to show somebody else. I'll go. Alan, yeah, but you

Unknown:

that jingle that drop. You do know about everything, Andy, don't you? Thank you. Literally nothing about well, the life and

Nick Lincoln:

times of Sir Ken Davies is a bit of a blank spot. Name is legend

Unknown:

passed. I can't remember who. Anyway, Alan. I go. I was interested recently to understand that one of the, I think one of the greatest leaders of financial planning businesses around the world. The guy by the name of Peter maluc, who spoke about in the past, is he never goes to conferences. He just, you know, wasted time. I'd rather be at work. I'd rather be, you

Nick Lincoln:

know, based in Kansas, isn't he? So it's not, not even glamorous Manhattan offices or anything subtle that they can do all that on the East Coast.

Unknown:

He has. Spoken at a few Alan. Well, this is the point. He said that at the future proof event, I believe lasts, whatever it was last September. And then you see that you we've kicked around the idea of going out there. I haven't organized it yet, but, I mean, it does look insane. It's on the beach in California. This is one in Miami, which I can and there's one, is it? Well, that brand future proof is just, is huge. The now, I mean, the one that they have in wherever it is, just south, south of LA, Long

Nick Lincoln:

Beach, Long Beach, Long Beach

Unknown:

area in about some, yeah, Huntington Beach, that's exactly where it is. See in Hold on, you knew about, you know about everything apart from one thing. So that is it. I think that's in September. The weather over there, that time of year, is insane. And they have Europe. You've seen, you've all seen the videos and stuff, and you're right. Peter maluk was there, and he was interviewed by my close personal friend Josh at the time. And he was and he made the point. He made the point that he never goes to these. So every you know, this is a very unusual for him to attend, and it's, I find that quite interesting. But of course, then you look at the likes of future proof, and I know Carl, in a moment, you'll share some of your experiences, because you have been across to the US on that they just look just better. Bottom line, they just look far better, better organized, better better speakers

Andy Hart:

inside, outside, million stages. Oh, great. You know,

Unknown:

they have, they have, like, proper live music, and just the whole thing becomes just a huge get together and an event. And I'm sure the sort of the which is you've already alluded to, the, you know, how people bump into each other, meet each other, they, I mean, they go on, they go on, like, runs, and they're all fitness freaks, and they hit the gym, and anyway, they all talk to each other a lot about these lot about these things. So they definitely do it, do things. There

Nick Lincoln:

must be some stories there. There mustn't there, because they're in the sunshine. They're away from their other halves. There's 1000s and 1000s of them. There'll be free booze. I mean, there will be some. I know the Americans, sometimes your

Andy Hart:

filthy mind.

Nick Lincoln:

Me, absolutely good.

Unknown:

Work event. Yeah, here's, here's the point. I I agree with the sentiment, which is generally speaking, with one or two exceptions, and where I am in my career right now, conferences in the UK are generally pretty dull, the pretty samey. It's the same old kind of thing, same old people pitch up present. It might be I'm part of the problem. You know, it's the same speakers. Here's a sense for not all of us are to some extent, and they're not that wonderful anymore. Now I also get, because I have, we are trying to put together a mini conference of our own, or at least a live podcast recording. And even, you know, the the economics of the whole thing, absolute shambles. The economics are challenging. If how many moving parts are there for our little event? So many moving parts, so difficult. And if you want to put on a big event, like, like Andy's one, or some of the big, you know, the timeline ones, and some of these other big conferences, oh my god. And also the finances. You can't charge too much for these things and any if you want to get I know that because you and I Andy have spoken about this the speech speakers, what you know if you want to get a high profile speaker,

Andy Hart:

my God, we literally spoke, yes, they didn't, didn't we? I'm at the final negotiation stages with this one speaker who wants 9000 pounds? Sorry, 10,000 is is his standard rate. He's willing to do it to me for 9000 pounds. And it's up to the speaker whether or not he wants to not charge me expenses. What he's gonna have to get a 17 pound train from Kent, for example, and buy a freaking bagel and prep. I'm giving the guy an eye. Don't send me nine grand plus 27 pound for expenses. It's no he's gonna,

Unknown:

he's gonna get a limo to drive him from Ken. He's gonna stay when you

Andy Hart:

charging someone 9000 pounds for a 45 minute slot. Is

Carl Widger:

this guy still an option? Is he still not anymore? I

Unknown:

get Sir Ken Davey to come and speak. You do.

Andy Hart:

So if anyone listening knows Ken. He's a close personal friend of theirs. I'd love him to I'm obviously gonna let the other guys chip it, but I also takes a shout out to Paul armson was the person that introduced the independent conference. Yes, from from my knowledge, in the UK, why you're right? Yeah. Had we not had that, we would not have had Abraham's advisor, 3.9 we probably wouldn't have had humans under management. So shout out to Paul for starting the independent conference, because compared to PFS, C, i, s, I and some of the other industry professional bodies, the independent conferences are miles better, obviously, then you've got the next step up to the US. So yeah, shout out to Paul armson first. Well,

Unknown:

yep. Paul. Paul did do that. I was at his first conference. It

Andy Hart:

takes one person. Everyone else thinks, wow, we can actually have independent conferences, like fair play, like

Unknown:

advisors, advisors. Up until that point, unfortunately, some still feel this way. Couldn't imagine getting their hands into their pocket because it was all conferences were free prior to that. And what did they say? Nicholas, you're the product. Maybe, yeah, if it's free, you are the product. And of course, you get pushed through all the bit you have to sit down with fund managers and listen to their pitch. It's just

Andy Hart:

an innovator in that space

Unknown:

and some conferences, that's exactly what you still have to do. I mean, I know conferences that will put you up as a delegate will put you up in a hotel. They'll pay for everything else as long as you attend. Yeah, go along there. But the bargain is, you must sit through literally 10 different presentations by fund managers. There's one year up the road from here, the Grove, yeah,

Nick Lincoln:

invite me every year a certain publication holds it there. And the quid pro, it's nice, nice hotel, and you get you get put up there. But the quid pro is, you get stuck in a lot. In a locked room with three other gironis and a fund manager.

Andy Hart:

If you, if you keep your head down for a couple of years, Nick, you might be able to go for lunch of the grove. Just keep your head down. Mate. Sorry, Andrew, your

Nick Lincoln:

mics playing. I just sound like just garbage.

Unknown:

I was. I actually posted on this on LinkedIn recently, this because really, really the conference and the speakers, with a few notable exceptions, is almost a sideshow. It is about people getting together. And you know what? If you think back, this very podcast was created or had its origins at a conference, they the infamous, less said about you better management. One and only time Andrew took his conference to the Emerald Isle was the first time I met my good friend, Mr. Widger. And we obviously got on well, and then we kept in touch, and blah, blah, blah, and here we are now, or, you know, several years later. Oh, yeah. Thanks. Subject for another time, but there's been quite, if I reflected back in the last number of years, there's been quite a few things, or, you know, joint ventures or opportunities, or, you know, I've recruited people that I've met at a meeting or a conference or a get together. And so there's a lot of value in that. And I would advise anyone in future going to any conference to actually do a bit of work, if you want to get the most out of it. If you're not just there, just just for CPD points or to see someone just speaking about some random subject, do better research. Find out who else is going to it. And if you think there's some there's an opportunity, there's a collaboration, there's something then seek them out, because everyone's in a much more relaxed, convivial sort of state of mind, and particularly if you have a drink in your hand, in the bar in the evening, there are some great friendships created from these. And I've certainly been participated in that over many, many years. But the underlying quality, in my opinion, right now, is not great. It isn't great, and needs to be improved. Yeah, I'll

Nick Lincoln:

just, I'll interject this. Okay, I have banged on about this before, and I bang on about again. It was mentioned earlier in this segment that the best part of all these things is the bit where you talk with your peers over over a glass of warm sherry or something. But by country, my ideal conference agenda is you rock up at 1130 there's a fantastic keynote speaker, and at 12, you all go for a long lunch. The end, most of them, not wrong. That's the future. Most of them are dross. I think you burnish your reputation now by being seen not to be seen at most of these events. Most of them are full of low energy types, being seen not to be, yeah, just not just to don't go there. I'm I'm really now quickly about what I go to for in terms of these events, it's rich, it'll it'll be harmony, even then I sort of dash in and out of the pub and cross the Houston road about five times. It's our thing, which I think is lovely. It's not really a conference, but it's just different, but it's a very social event. But the networking at trap live last year was brilliant, and I think it's gonna be brilliant again this year. 32 tickets left. Now the ticker is actually smoking in the corner. And I think when you're young and you're the newest thing of ours, as you said, Andy, you go in, you're a sponge, and you soak in my cue. I used to make notes and everything, and my writing was joined up. Andy, so I was really on my day. And now I go to these things. Is it? Because I know everything? No, it's not really, but it's basically, there's nothing new under the sun, and after a while you just you hear, it's repetition is the mother of learning, right? So it's good to hear the same messages, but then there's very little new you glean from these conferences. The best part is mixing with your peer group. How I've got this problem with x? How are you dealing with it? I've got this problem blah, blah, blah, this is how I do it. Oh, it's interesting, because you're dealing with the practitioners. They're not being spoken to, but they never advised a client, prepared the next who are still prevalent, who are there was an AJ Bell. There's lady of May J bell on one of the, I think, money marketing podcast this week. Sorry if it's the wrong brand, it's one of the trade rags. Lady of May J Bell, a career journalist. And the whole podcast, I didn't listen to it. The whole podcast is about how advisors should be planning. For the tax year end. And I thought, this never ends. This never goes away. This, this has been told what to do by people who've never done our job or never stood in our shoes. Industry events are great because you get to talk to people that have done that. And that's, that's, that's my view. And yeah, for CPD, for sure, sometimes you've got to bite the bullet and just do it.

Carl Widger:

Do the CPD. Just do them online.

Nick Lincoln:

I do pretty much, to be honest. I mean, I've done mine for the end, and the CIS I, to their credit, has is very, very good, very well organized in terms of CBT com and how it logs it and how you get graded, and you can prove you've done the exam, you can still open up multiple windows if you want to cheat. Apparently, not something I would do, of course, because I'm ethics. I'm ethics through and through. Yeah, I do do most of it, but sometimes, yeah, I'll kind

Carl Widger:

of just maybe circle back in a few things, because I'm not going to say anything that hasn't already been said. But to reiterate the point, the benefit, the biggest benefit, is definitely talking to your peers, are people who are a couple years ahead of you in in terms of experience, and that's why trap was born. I mean, no other reason that we just used to talk about this stuff, to trash it out and not necessarily agree all the time, but, you know, have our own opinions, and hopefully that's what we're bringing through trap. Trap live is to actually do the podcast. But I think last year it was brilliant. We did the live podcast, but then we had the kind of we had a little break, and then we did the Q and A and stuff, and that was fantastic. That's literally people from the floor firing questions at us, and we're answering them as best as we possibly can. But then we had our few drinks, and I'm asking people questions I'm learning from that. So I think that is the big benefit, isn't it, of of the independent conferences and just a story, I remember, we wanted to just on something, Alan said we wanted to bring, to be able to distribute dimensional funds. And they went, but that will be fantastic, and you'd be more than welcome to do that. We have a science of investing, you know, kind of thing that you have to go through before we'll take you off and we run it in London. And we're like, oh, fact, that sounds amazing. We'll all go over and you have to pay for it yourself. We're like, what

Nick Lincoln:

it was all going so well. Do you

Carl Widger:

know we are Irish, we don't pay for anything. Thanks very much. So that was our first experience. But you know what? It was really cool to be able to to say, We booked our own flights, we stayed in our own hotel, we went over, we did the course, and now we're back and and for the first time ever, right? You laugh at this. We're able to to recommend a fund manager to our clients who are not paying us. Yeah. Now this was, this was Yeah, yeah, brand new. Only a decade. Was ridiculous, sounds Yeah, ridiculous, yeah, but it was massive. So like, yeah, that was our first kind of, and then, then, Andy, I met you. We I went to Home, and I went, Oh, my God, there's this kind of totally independent thing. And they're like TED talks, and there's practitioners there. And I wrote six pages, and I came back and I put and I said, we are doing this, this, this, this, and this. And then you brought it to Dublin, and, you know, it was just amazing. So I suppose a little bit like that hedonic treadmill we were talking about. Then I was like, right, what's the, what's the next best conference? So I did go to the risk allies, one, they're called nitrogen now, which is, it's a few years ago now in Boston, it was amazing. And I met amazing people at it. And I was clearly the only Irish guy at it, but it was just, it was two day, maybe even three days, and there was speakers. There was this guy called John, a cough, speaking. He blew my mind. There was just, you know, and they were outside of our, of our, of our profession. They were like, not necessarily in any way involved, but it was about succeeding in your, you know, your personal life. It was just, it was just absolutely fantastic. And I love that whole idea of what post risk data, nitrogen, and now that's the future proof thing. And in the Irish ideas exchange, all those folks are all traveling over to future proof for the second or third time, right? So now there's a bunch of Irish guys who are kind of going just not happening in the Irish market. They've all been to London, they've all been to home, and now they're all going to future proof. So like, things do develop and they go on. And I came back after the Boston trip, and I said to you guys, that's how conferences need to be done. That's how you will absolutely learn. That's how you will make yourself better. And I was talking to a guy last week of the week for really successful advisor here, and he said, not going to anything at all. I'm getting my CBD online, and I'm doing future proof, and there will be something else then that I will go to when future proof. Gets a little bit stale as things do. So it's true, I try and keep reinventing. And I guess, Andy, that's one of your challenges with home is, how do you keep reinventing, making it relevant, and all of that kind of stuff. And I know you're doing a great job with all the different types of speakers, but it is not, nonetheless, a challenge.

Andy Hart:

Yeah, I'm, I'm sort of trying to stick with the format. I think it works. It's one flow, one stream, one day. I don't know what the future of conferences is going to be in the UK. I don't think it is a three day event. It's just blocking the time aside when it's pissing down in man, well, that's it, and you're not on holiday.

Nick Lincoln:

I mean, we're comparing ourselves to a country that's got a population of three 70 million is vastly more wealthy than us, more entrepreneurial. They're just going to have bit and they've got the geographical space for and they've got the weather on the west coast and in Florida and so forth. So I don't think we should beat ourselves up too much about our natural show people anyway, they're just it's just in their DNA to do these things well, and

Andy Hart:

the rationales is baked into the US stuff.

Carl Widger:

You've told close minds to this, right? There's, that's, that's growth mindset here, right? You can get on a plane for two hours from London and go to Spain or Portugal, or somewhere like that. And surely, there's a big enough financial planning community now in your good point where, you know, go, go to the people who are putting on their own stuff and say, will you help fund this? Will you, will you help

Unknown:

me? A lot easier to do it in Portugal than in Miami?

Carl Widger:

And I'm going to that I am going, Yeah, hard

Unknown:

it is to do a simple event in May, in London, you know, a couple of hours get circus in Portugal in September. Yeah,

Carl Widger:

hire a proper, professional event management company and get the people who we all do business with to put, you know, put money towards it. They can all have their that's the way. Future. You

Unknown:

can charge, charge a fair ticket price for it. People will charge, yeah, you say that, by the way, just, I was just thinking about this, and we've all talked to we've all been on our own journeys. I think it is fair to say there are, you know, there are people just starting the profession, and if they went to hum or something like that, it would just blow their mind. But with all due respect to Andy and others, you know, after 15 events, it's like, it's, you know, it's good, it's all right, but it's not mind blowing, and nothing is maybe future proof. But if you're early in your journey, it's amazing. I wonder if there's

Nick Lincoln:

an age thing as well. I just struggled how to sit inside an auditorium all day long. I just, I just get conference fatigue after about two hours, and it says,

Carl Widger:

which is why future proof works? Yeah, you can bounce. Yeah, absolutely. And that's why Portugal will work, and that's why we're gonna organize

Andy Hart:

it. Ticket three people there, just to mention a couple of other firms, I think, DFA, they do events. They are an event company. Obviously they're an investment company, but they do shed load events all around the UK and some of their Yep, science of investing. I think you mentioned Carl, which is their initial introduction one, yeah, DFA do some some awesome events next gen. Also run an independent conference. I think they've got it in Liverpool this year. I think I'm going to think you're going Alan. They do try and chop it up with loads of different streams and silent discos and tons of different cylinders, just a lot of stuff. I intentionally with hum. Don't want the razzmatazz with harm. I'm going for quality speaker content. And the average speaker results for hum out of 10 are about 8.5 which, compared to all the other stuff, I think, is insanely higher. I will mention them again, just to get your thoughts on them. MDRT, they do put a global showcase on every single year. You know, one year it's in Florida, then it's in, like the Philippines, and it's in like Cape Town. You know, I've been

Unknown:

den, Denver, Colorado, some years ago. Well, interesting. They definitely put on a big show. And because it's global, it's actually fascinating in many ways, because it's big, 1000 planners. But the main, the ones that I see a lot of there is insurance sales people, which is, you know, no, no problem with that. But, and that's the origins of million dollar. It was people who were selling a million dollars of life insurance. That's the and so they still have very much the embrace that philosophy and in countries around the world. And I remember meeting these people from Japan and Korea, and they all wear the company uniform. They've all got the jacket of, you know, Sumitomo life or something like that. And they walk around in gangs of that, 40 or 50 of them, saying, I'm very proud to be a life insurance salesman. And it's, you know, it's wonderful, but God is different to anything else I've seen. But they have some. They have, like presidents of the US and stuff. Their keynote speakers are proper, famous people. But it's interesting. Thing. I didn't go back, to be fair, but it was definitely interesting. Well, if it had

Nick Lincoln:

been in Dorking, he wouldn't have gone. But Denver's got more of a draw. Listen, we better, we better draw this to a close. We're 75 minutes in, and watch has got a watch is in a hotel room somewhere to kill Kenny. Yep, yeah. Okay. So far, the hometown, so far that the Tech has held up very well for watch. It's always a we're all sitting here, fingers crossed. Let's, let's move on to the to the next part of the show, which is the TRAPPIST questions. There goes my front door. Well, I can see the post is dragging the bulging sack of TRAPPIST questions up my drive into the door. If you want to submit a question, please do so by the pinned X on tweet, the pinned tweet on x, the pinned X on x, the pinned tweet on tweet, whatever, and also the so called show notes. There's a permanent link for you to submit your questions. We do get through them. We're I think we're now at October last year. That's where we are in the hopper. We go through them in chronological order. That means date order. Andrew, thank you. Thank you, Nick. What two of these are statements more than questions, so I'm going to read them out. We don't just say the first one is from Chris Adams, who's on LinkedIn, having successfully subscribed to both the podcast and YouTube and left a five star review, I'd like to request a piece on your respective experiences, on starting your own businesses. I'd like to think there's enough material here, from meat and potatoes airing. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to attending the next in person show, which, of course, is on May the 14th, Wednesday. 31 tickets left. Thanks for that. Chris Adams, that's more of a statement than a question. I think we have addressed. I think we have addressed starting up your own business in back episodes of trap. No doubt we'll come back to it again, then just going down to a third one, we'll come back to a question one in a minute. Henry Taylor, this is interesting. Hi. Just a comment regarding Breaking Bad news. I'm a cancer doctor who stumbled across your pod. Reassure your younger advisors that Breaking Bad news is a skill and can be learned and definitely not to be avoided. Building relationships is easier with honesty. Keep well, well, amen. Thank you, Henry, there we go, another city. Straight. Listener to the trap podcast. And Nick, would you?

Unknown:

Would you mind? Could I just before we ask the question, just very, very briefly, because that's remind reminded me, I just want to say a quick word about a guy called Kevin Conlon, who was a big fan of this podcast and had a lot of health issues. And he, you know, I met with him a couple of times, and he, he was telling me how trap had really helped him. He sort of cheered him up a bit when he's in his hospital bed, etc, and he wanted to retrain as a financial planner, and I sort of helped him. So in a couple of ways, sadly, Kevin didn't beat the battle with cancer, and he passed away recently. I just wanted to, like, shout out to Kevin Conlon, rip and particularly, as you just mentioned by a cancer doctor who was

Nick Lincoln:

he's been nice, nice, nice as well. Nicely said. Nicely said,

Carl Widger:

Okay, best in peace, Kevin. Yeah. Breaking Bad again. Younger

Nick Lincoln:

advisors, you know, get good at breaking bad news, because it's going to feel painful the first few times you do it, your clients will love you for doing it. All right, if you're on the front foot with it, just tell people the truth. As you see it, you're going to be their trusted advisor, and they'll, they'll go with you for the rest of your days. It will be

Andy Hart:

interesting to hear Henry's views on how we can break bad news if Henry's listening and wants to contact any of us with some bullet points or something, I think there'll be some interesting learning. Nick's turning up his face, which means it's a good idea, right? So Henry, please contact us if, if that makes sense, yeah,

Nick Lincoln:

look up Andy Hart on LinkedIn. Okay, right? That's your question. It's from a guy called Lee gleeve, who's also on LinkedIn, so his profile will be in the circle show notes. There's been quite a bit of noise in the press recently about over reliance on cash flow modeling tools by advisors. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this, and to hear from you guys on which cash flow modeling software you use, and while you feel it's the best fit for your business,

Unknown:

three of you are going to say, well, I don't think

Nick Lincoln:

you can be overly rely on cash flow modeling. You can certainly be under modeling. You can certainly be under reliance on it, but I'm, I'm absolutely reliant on on cash flow modeling. And I wouldn't, I couldn't imagine going into an annual planning meeting with clients who entrusted me with their pots of money not to base it on a meaningful, bespoke cash flow forecast aligned to those clients goals and aspirations and lifestyle costs. I just don't know how you I cannot believe people are not using cash flow software all the time. I use voin. I think it's the best. Maybe that's subjective. Obviously, with Andy, we I help him with his training sessions on voice. I am competent at it, but it's it's for me, voyant is the best. There are other brands out there. Play around with them. I hear good things about some. I hear bad things about others the end,

Andy Hart:

yeah. Also, whenever these articles are written in the press, they're written by journalists and next that have never, ever built a financial plan and have never, ever presented a financial plan to a client, have never, ever updated a financial plan annually to see the client stay on course and directing them to their financial nirvana. Yeah, I train financial advisors on voyant. I'm a massive voyant fan. Voyant, I believe, is the only one that's fit for purpose. You know, the space that we work in is insanely complex, tax rules, financial rules. It's messy to have to so to have a piece of software to mirror that. It needs to be incredibly capable. And currently, the only one on the market that is capable is voyant. Over to you, Alan or Carl, all

Unknown:

right, I've got a different take on it, because we don't use voyant because we were doing cash flow modeling before voyant existed, or certainly before existed in the UK. So we use we talked about them a moment ago, Paul armson. When Paul armson came and sold, selling his software, which was part of the press wood suite of tools called Truth. And we test this on a regular basis, truth remains to ask the best of all the systems. By the way, it doesn't really matter, but truth does everything, including some very complex tax calculations. It is a little bit clunky because it's not kind of on the web and all that sort of stuff. But I speak to our advisors quite regularly, and they say they love it and they wouldn't want to change it. The only, the only thing I'd add to that is we also use in certain circumstances, particularly around the at retirement market, we use timeline. And the reason we use timeline is that it doesn't just use a linear projection, ie, assume the same rates of return every year. It uses a level of Monte Carlo stochastic modeling to give you a degree more sophistication. Now, when you're doing the modeling, I take a massive I take everything with a massive pinch of salt, because assuming what's going to happen over the next 30 years for anyone is crazy and and I think the summary that I've got on this, it doesn't really matter whether it's voyant timeline truth, whatever it is, yes, you can argue about one's better than the other, yeah, but you just got to do it, is the thing. And a lot of people still aren't doing any cash flow, or they're using Excel or something like that, which is not fit for purpose. And the last thing I want to say is this, the the person who put forward this question, Lee gleeve Shout out to Lee, because Lee was the first person to purchase a ticket for this trap, live get together that we're having the 14th because he was ticket purchaser number one. Thank you. Nima

Nick Lincoln:

uno, the big cheese, the top dog, the big honcho, the man on the hill, King cheese. Okay, good stuff. Car jump into contribute. No,

Carl Widger:

we don't use cash to modeling. No. Like, I think what he's alluding to is people are going, oh, you know, doing, what the point Adam made? You know, predicting what's going to happen in 30 years, but look, it gives you a feel for what might happen in 30 years. It's not going to be accurate, but I think you can get increasingly more accurate in the early years, and I think that's kind of important to give people comfort. So, yeah, like you said, Nick, I can't imagine sitting down with a client without just doing a

Andy Hart:

plan, yeah. Just a very, very story. Many years ago, I used to go to Ireland three or four times a year. I was involved in voyant and I used to do presentations to financial advisors. I think you were there a few of them, weren't you? Carl, Yep, yeah. And obviously I'm pitching this software. This is what it does, bells and whistles. Razzmatazz often as a sort of blank looking, you know, advisors in the room, and then I'd say, but also, there's this part of the software where it works offline. The whole room erupts. It works offline. It's amazing. Like before all the bells and whistles couldn't cook the monkeys. It works offline. It works online. You know, 25 Irish advisors sign up immediately. This software works offline, offline. Now we were, you know, that's not, not a big thing for it. This was a 2012 or something. But the biggest selling point of the software was it works offline. Why was that? Were they paying per minute for, I don't know. It just got a lot of the advisors over the line that was like the pitch.

Nick Lincoln:

That's an amazing story, and it's well worth an amazing Andy 83 minutes

Carl Widger:

together. We remember those, those visits as well. Andy, we loved, we loved having you right, fondly about you to this right, right, right. Come on. Well, let's go.

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, right? Quickly, let's move on to the next segment of the show. Coach,

Carl Widger:

it has to be me, because I filled it in first. No, it's me. Oh, as you go, you go, right, okay, I'll go number one. I'm just back from watching Italy and Ireland play in Rome in the rugby go to Rome for one of the international rugby match is absolutely brilliant, but my segue into my real culture corner is Johnny Sexton's book called obsessed. Yeah, I just found it a little bit heavy, a little bit difficult. I'm not sure the guy enjoyed any of his career, because he was so bloody driven, and there has to be lessons in there for us all, because there was some things I could definitely go, yeah, maybe, maybe it was a little the same. And, yeah, it's very, very interesting. And obviously it's all pretty recent, right? It's in the last 10 or 15 years, so there's a lot of games you'll. Remember, you know, a lot of Ireland, England games, it's, it's really, it's really interesting. But who, when you get to that real, real top elite level, these guys are so driven, you wonder, is it healthy, but, but, but, but? A good book. A really good book.

Nick Lincoln:

Okay, great stuff. Thank you. Okay,

Unknown:

on a similar theme. Actually, just the other night, I watched Sargeras Southgate, the previous England football manager. Yeah, he's certainly pretty sure he is semi semi finals, mate. Yeah, he so he gave us a famous thing. It's called the Richard Dimbleby lecture. Once a year. Richard Dimbleby, close, person. Well, his grandson, close personal friend of mine mentioned him before. But anyway, he gives

Carl Widger:

ever more tenuous these things. This

Unknown:

guy, he's been on my podcast. Well, but anyways, there's a thing. It's called this, the Richard Timothy lecture. And somebody, some high profile person, gives a, you know, 40 minute talk about their life and everything else, and it's just the one for this year is Gareth Southgate. And those who don't remember Gareth Southgate was in the England football team who famously missed a crucial penalty against Germany in I think it was a semi final or something, a massive game. And he just talks through his everything that was going on. He's just walking up to take that kick, and when he missed it, everything that happened to him and how his whole trajectory of his life changed as a result of that. And then fast forward, however, 20 years later, he's the England coach and manager, and went through a very, very similar experience with his team, therefore, and he talks just about resilience. He talks about belief, and it's, it's pretty powerful stuff. And we often talk on this podcast about the the lessons from sport. We're all big sports fans, the lessons from sport that you take into your business life. It's 40 minutes long. The Q, A is worth listening to at the end as well. A few people ask some questions, um, on BBC, BBC, iPlayer. No worth Oh, definitely. Check that out. That's decent. And

Nick Lincoln:

thanks. Okay. Mine is kicking ball. Kicky ball. Garrett Southgate, taking the knee for months and months and months. Get over yourself. Okay? Barry Ritholtz, a great, great interviewer, and he's often of the Masters of Business Podcast. I'm sure we will listen to, cherry pick the episode listen to, but he's a very good interviewer. On the Morningstar long view podcast, he was interviewed, and he's just a really engaging guy, very so he just comes across as nice, and he's just great storyteller, and he talks about his life and his passions and his writing, the fact he just writes, as you know, he writes for an audience of one, and well worth listening to. Very engaging guy runs a very good business. Yeah, he's got those two jabronis that work under him, who get on my nerves, those New York

Unknown:

he's obviously, he's doing the rounds, and he was on the Scott Galloway podcast as well last week, because he's got a new book coming out. Larry's got a new book coming out. Well, that's good because it doesn't

Nick Lincoln:

my index. He doesn't focus on the book. Actually, in the pod, I didn't even know that listening to the podcast, I missed this. I just zoned out for that part of it. It's just more about him. Business, very good. So it's very good. Isn't that nice guy, right? Last one,

Andy Hart:

another podcast recommendation, loosely linked to Carl's point. Heston Blumenthal is on the High Performance podcast. There's a link in the show notes. He was sectioned last year, three days away from death. He talks about his ADHD, his bipolar again, his relentless focus at the fact that the best restaurant in the world in Bray for a few years. He said the reason he obsessed over everything is because the kitchen was small. So the constraints of having a small kitchen meant they had to obsess over all the ingredients. He said, If I had a big kitchen, we'd probably we probably wouldn't have been the best restaurant in the world. There's just loads of sort of good tickets in there. So, yeah, do check it out. It's quite short. Annoyingly, it's only 40 minutes. I think they're going to talk for hours. They must have had time constraints. That's cool. Yeah, check it out. If you're into

Unknown:

Have you ever, did you ever go to fat Have you ever been to The Fat Duck? I

Andy Hart:

have been to the fat dog and the hinds head the pub, yeah.

Unknown:

I mean, a couple of times fabulous. It was the number one restaurant. Tiny, little, tiny, little house, tree, far from

Carl Widger:

The Fat Duck. You too. Boys are rare. But anyway, go on jokers,

Unknown:

bacon and egg ice cream. That was a favorite. Oh, fancy. Some of that amazing quantity smoke, right? Are we done yet? Boss, I

Nick Lincoln:

think we are. We're coming in at 89 minutes of absolute magic, absolute content beyond the TRAPPIST wildest dream. So let's how

Carl Widger:

do we always land on 89 minutes? That's actually because I start doing

Nick Lincoln:

this in the background, saying, Get on with it. Yeah. So there you go, dear TRAPPIST, Episode 67 has come to a close, and another part of trap slides down the U bend of Father Time. Please do leave a review on iTunes or your podcast app of choice. If you can leave a review on it, six out of five stars is mandatory. May the 14th, the tickets are selling up. Hot takes or trap live the really buys a podcast.com. Buy yours now. You don't want to miss out. FOMO is a really bad thing. You're going to. Just feel shit if you don't get a ticket. All right, that's my hard sell, but until the next time, guys from the Track Pack, it's adios. Take care of it, and we'll see you on the other side in Episode 68

Carl Widger:

cheerio, bye, bye.

Unknown:

That was all right.

People on this episode

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Nick Lincoln

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Alan Smith

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Andy Hart

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Carl Widger

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